Jewish & Christian Scripture is very hard material to approach with the proper respect it is due for people who are not believers. I do not think this is a rule, as something that they have to do, but it is simply what I have found over the years. Likewise, it is even harder for those who think they are believers, but are not — such as those who are in plainly observable cults. (There are far, far larger less observable cults, such as the large base of “fundamentalists” (now more often called “evangelists”)).
Whatever the case, there are a good chunk of the people across the world who profess to being Christian, no less then 2 billion. And far, far more who have been deeply indebted to Christian scripture due to its’ extraordinary impact on the world.
Even Islam and Communism have strong Christian influence, though I do not think any here would argue that their final product is good. Christianity, however, may not have founded “socialism” — though this is exactly what, at least, some first AD churches looked like. But, it did expand on existing social structures like that and refined it, popularizing it.
Jesus never promised that the Message would be all good, however, nor did the Apostles who wrote of the Message. They all noted that it would bring a fire and a sword to the world. However, at the very same time, this is said to be temporary, in the end, the world is depicted as being part of “the Kingdom of Heaven” with no more death nor sorrow. Where “knowledge of God will fill the earth as waters cover the sea”.
This is what can be expected from God. Even a casual observer can note that the situation in the Garden was unusual. Certainly, God knew that the snake would tempt Adam and Eve. That temptation was that Adam & Eve would “become like God knowing good from evil”. The lie, at least, was that they “would not die”.
The Garden, we can take, as metaphoric. We do not know how metaphoric, or where, but we can find ourselves prone to death and every manner of vulnerability. We find Scripture calls us to “master sin” and try and find life. Though, paradoxically, ‘an angel with a flaming sword all about’ was put over the Tree of Life, to guard it, and the Garden.
The world teaches much different on these matters: it teaches that “this was the fall of humankind”, for one. It was a fall, but we do have to embrace the reality here: humankind did not know good from evil. If they were given the “fruit from the Tree of Life” at that time, they would become terrible creatures, prone to sin, unable to handle the powerful responsibility of immortality.
And, that is where we find ourselves, today, and across the history – the known currently history – of the world.
If people want to try and accuse God, as I have seen here, they should first approach the Scripture with the sort of intellectual honesty they claim to put to other fields of endeavor. However anyone wants to spin it, if they look at these works as fraudulent, these works are still of the very height of intellectual achievement, such as which have deeply influenced extraordinary works of art and literature — which works, in turn, have deeply influenced our modern culture.
There are, of course, many other areas of strong influence, including even in what many disrespectfully misunderstand in Science. Many other areas beyond merely cultural areas have likewise been strongly influenced, as can be trivially put out. But, all areas of modern, human life, have been strongly influenced, invariably, as so rich has the penetration been across history.
If you are capable of criticizing the works of Scripture, claiming, inherently, to understand it fully and better then those who have put enormous work into it, and who have innate talent for doing so: then, at least live up to that mantle of calling, and do so.
Instead, just as the most depraved of cults do, what I see happen is a murder of the words, a making of intellectual alphabet soup out of it.
At the very core of Scripture, even with the seeming explicit works such as Ecclesiastes, is code. Hard code. Code, puzzles, hiding the real matters. This is as we are warned and instructed through out the sizable works. It is first explicitly disclosed when God speaks of Moses, ‘when I send a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, I speak to them in puzzle, but it is not so with Moses, to whom I speak plainly, face to face, and not in riddle’.
Considering God here is speaking of John, the author of Revelation, Jeremiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Ezekiel, and other great Prophets, one should ask themselves, “Do I really have the experience and capability to even understand what is being said here?”
Further, and most of all, Scripture does not require an intellectual mind to fathom. But, it requires an open mind, one with a vivid imagination to ascertain. You have to be willing and able to entertain strongly the possibility that the miracles and heavenly are real, or you can never possibly hope to fathom it.
This later part is exactly something those who have ‘wisdom of the world’ do with works of science, and they should certainly be able to bring that same open mind and imagination to Scripture. But, because science is ‘of the world’, and God is of heaven, they are unable to do so. That is my finding.
Not that we should take the miraculous and heavenly as something that has no science to it, quite the contrary. But, it is a science as yet undiscovered in this world, something which the very wise of this world can not ascertain. It is from the far future and the far past, and very, very far away. It is from “up there” in the heavens, and not something that our very, very primitive culture should even remotely be expected to be able to entertain — without heavenly help.
Now, a meter I find good for someone who wishes to claim themselves superior to all others on understanding Scripture is this: if you are superior to those who wrote these books, then go and write such material your own self. Then, I will certainly approach you as a peer. If you can write superior material, then I would approach you as even superior to the very prophets and Moses.
But, all I have seen in regards to the critical voices here, is people who have no background in the material, whatsoever. Some may have read it, but they have clearly not seriously taken in it. There is no consistent quoting or working from Scripture, except taking out verses and twisting them entirely out of the deep and very alien context they are clearly put in. There is fault finding, but no looking for resolving of seeming contradictions. Even though, we all could be subjected to the very same standard and end up with the very same thesis. Which standard, if the Gospels are true, which I find they are, is the very standard you will be judged by. Your own.
You can not get more fair then that.
Further, on an even more simple level, why does everyone attempt to approach the so-called “God of the Old Testament”, but I never see anyone try and approach Jesus in their criticism? When they do, it is from a very far distance, throwing out everything he actually said and did except for one or two actions. When I say, “everyone”, there is no reason to pretend to be stupid here, I am, of course, speaking of the many critics I have talked to or read from over the years. I am nearly fifty years old, and I have had no problem tackling on many worldly modern science areas, as well as Scripture.
So, I expect from the smart people here to at least be my equal if they are going to go off on screeds approaching such material.
There are the exceptions, of those who do not discuss such material, and of Griz, specifically, who I have found to have an extremely advanced and enlightened view of Scripture.
Today, a vast delusion wraps modern society, and I will warn people of it: God said that ‘whatever he opens, no one can shut’, and ‘whatever he shuts, no one can open’. There is no evolution, and “outerspace” or “the heavens” is not as people think it is.
Further, all areas of modern science and technology are not areas which are perfectly well known. Any sincere and critical minded student of these areas would not simply fall along with the wide crowd, but would be willing to look at the history of both areas, and consider how far we have come in such a short time: then, they should start to try and imagine the future of this exponential growth of “knowledge”. We have science fiction, but we have to note that science fiction can barely account except in the most alien of circumstances great leaps and bounds which the future would hold if we keep on our current path.
Some key assumptions that should be treated with skepticism, but are not, due to modern arrogance: the universe may be seen as expanding, and it may be seen as having a singular point of expansion, but this is certainly not necessarily true. There could be pools of what we call the observable universe that stretch on infinitely, beyond what our modern telescopes can pick up. There could be vast stretches of only and nearly empty space at the outer edges of what we scope as “the universe”. There could be infinite “big bangs” which create supermassive pools, pushing what was there far away, even so far away that one finds, finally truly empty vacuum of space, after what would be unknowable distances of the sort of ‘not so empty really at all’ space we now observe.
There could be evolution, but we may not have evolved, we very well may have been planted here by beings who, like our own selves, wish to replicate their own selves but are billions or even trillions and more years advanced then us.
No one can say that these speculations are invariably untrue, or provably untrue, though they are entirely new ideas entirely separate from the rather trivial modern concepts of multiverses. And so parallel dimensions, and other perhaps unnecessary intellectual devices.
My point here is not to preach some message which is unimportant, but rather simply to point out, that even in the scope of supposed exalted and final human understanding there are vast and painfully obvious failings which really even some anonymous nobody on the internet could come up with — and have the merit to drop for free.
Because, I find, for whatever reason, there is a deep and strong arrogance today, where people are unwilling to use their imaginations and go, “Maybe I can’t write anything close to Scripture, so maybe I should not speak on the subject because I would sound stupid and arrogant, lazy to a degree I do not find myself willing to show in any endeavor I take seriously”. If you can, perhaps, see, that you are but a human, in a civilization which is inconceivably young — maybe you can understand why you can not truly fathom the next ten years, the next hundred years, or the next thousand years.
Then, maybe you can try and look at Scripture and say, “I do not know what is happening there, I do not understand it”.
And start over, assuming ignorance, not knowledge you do not have.
© 2026 – SoulSequel
32 responses to “Approaching Criticism of Scripture & God”
GOD is the Divine Intelligence of the universe, the “spark of life” which breaths life into mankind. There are two camps of belief systems that exist today; the first camp being those that believe the Bible and all that it entails, and the second camp being those who believe in science and that science can explain everything that exists as we know it.
I take exception with those of the second camp, as they falsely believe that mankind is the highest form of life in the universe and that it only exists on planet Earth. They foolishly put their faith in the Darwinian Theory of evolution, as if man evolve from the lower primates. They constantly search for some “missing link” if you will, that jump started what is thought to be modern man, yet they ignore the idea that man was created by an all knowing omnipotent being, GOD, who breathed life into mankind. Both camps are right and both camps are wrong at the same time.
God, the Creator, as an infinitely intelligent creature may well have manipulated the DNA of some lower life form primate to produce what we now know as mankind, through “selective breeding”. This process may well have been employed elsewhere in the cosmos, producing intelligent humanoid species on millions of habitable worlds.
The Bible clearly describes that man was made in the image of his creator. Would it be a far stretch for one to imagine that God is an alien, thousands if not millions of years advanced in knowledge than mankind? The obvious answer would yes, as mankind is limited in his knowledge of the universe and even more limited in his knowledge of his own origins.
How anyone can believe that mankind is superior to all other life forms or that life does not exist on other planets is the worst form of arrogance. In the Bible, Jesus speaks of “His Kingdom is not of this world”, and “My Fathers house has many mansions”… it should not be so easily dismissed that what he was referring to is life existing elsewhere in the universe. The universe is teeming with life. There are vast civilizations older than this entire planet you call Earth. The Earth is relatively young by comparison, even infantile to other planets where sentient life has thrived for millennia upon millennia.
@immortal_pirate how would a god who created more life out there be any better? (This is an honest question,) If you truly believe this, you either have to have Jesus for each of these civilizations, he may have had to have been born, lived and died dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of times throughout the cosmos… OR there are civilizations… entire races of people that simply can’t be saved because they wouldn’t have the history behind salvation for their existence!
@Jear77 As far as I know, there is only one “earth”, however as we know more of Heaven today in terms of outward appearance it could be considered that God has been populating planets across space through ancient spiritual beings.
If so, then God would have a Jesus for every planet.
God would incarnate, in otherwords, for every planet.
Heaven, though ‘does not appear as literally coming down from the sky but is within/among you’.
So focusing on outer Heaven, is not where the answers are, and whether there are other “earths” is not very meaningful. What is meaningful is your own bondage to Satan.
As for pretending confusion on how there could be multiple Jesus’, this is absurd. Jesus was ‘slightly lower than the angels, but then raised above them with glory through the crucifixion.’
Jesus is the door to God, and so Heaven. Through Jesus, eventually, the entire world will become home to the Kingdom of Heaven.
@five2one meh. bad theology. The Preincarnate Jesus appeared before his *actual* incarnation (birth) from Mary.
@Jear77 What does that have to do with anything?
I do not think you understood anything I said to even be able to judge it.
Show me otherwise.
@five2one perhaps not. But i don’t have time now.
@Jear77 If you are talking about “ossified” theology, then yes. To use Griz’ perspective. I don’t know Griz, but have come to the exact same conclusions as he has on this. Big red flag for anyone with the capacity to think on their own when theology is entirely tradition based.
The theological challenge here, however, goes even beyond that, as it is entirely theoretical and so speculative, when discussing the possibility of ‘other earths’.
Certainly, any dyed in the wool traditionalist would burst a blood vessel in their brain to even begin to consider such a new idea and possibility.
However, there is nothing that would prevent God from being capable of doing anything.
As for “Jesus” being able to be replicated, that is the very process of his incarnation in the flesh, death on the cross, and resurrection which provided us with the life giving Spirit.
At the end of the Millennium, in Revelation, you see Jesus saying that He sat and sits on the Throne of His Father. In the Gospels, we are told, God’s throne is Heaven.
There is the “vault sky” Heaven, and then there is Heaven beyond that.
Grasping concepts like God’s unity and yet God’s omnipresence is not a trivial task for human beings, historically. So, obviously, I expect balking.
There can be only one Jesus per earth, however, but even that is not as people think it is, which can be proven via Revelation — a book which has many locks on it, however. As does the Gospels and Moses and the Prophets.
Even assuning ignorance, there are certain categories of things that should not be, yet plainly are, and categories of things that are not that should be. At every juncture of life, the message is always “no excuses. No explanations. No reasons.” If this is true for every orher category of life, why not scripture and god?
@Jear77 Not real sure what you are saying, but excusing laziness of reasoning in such a serious matter as your soul and life problems is certainly not the answer. However, ‘if you are not with us, you are against us’, and ‘if you are not helping gathering, you are scattering’.
I have a lot of the answers, I see Griz does.
It boils down however to happiness, peace, and power. I don’t see you as having this. So, you complain a lot about your own bad life state, and instead of accepting hands out to help you, you reject this.
In real terms, you are a thrall of the prince of this world. What you gain from this, I can not imagine. Maybe dreams you hold of worldy gain. Sons of a father say, “blood is thicker then water”.
It looks like the lutheran church you went to ruined you.
You can still escape, but that is up to your willingness to trust people from the Kingdom. As it is you deny us that trust, and instead give it to the people of the world.
That is your lot. Currently, anyway.
I suppose the lutherans really ruined you.
Sorry they were sons of hell instead of sons of God, if that is why you are in this lot.
@five2one I won’t have it until I have the money I need… or the ability to pull resources – time, people working towards my goals, shelter, food without the need of money (i.e. people giving me what I want/ need without me needing to spend a dime) and having the luck/ charisma to get people do so without any effort on my part.
@Jear77 Plenty of rich people giving their money to help the poor already. They give tiny portions of their vast weath for much honor from society.
You wouldn’t be any different.
Money is not what saves. You seem to worship it, which says it is your master. And, ‘you can’t worship both God and money’.
If money is your master, then you hate God.
Money won’t bring you any more happiness then you have now.
Plenty of miserable wealthy people with their fake smiles, plenty of happy poor people.
If you are not genuinely happy, then that is what you need, not money.
@five2one not really. I’m not happy because I need to work to earn money. Or at least doing thst which tears my body up. If i could do what i wanted all the time and still not have to worry about finances… OR If i could go to the store, online, car dealership, etc. and get what i wanted at no cost, regardless of what it was then money wouldn’t be anything.
@Jear77 I do not know what sort of physical ailments you have, or your job situation. You do have food and shelter, with ample free time and at least a computer and television. I realize people are ignorant that God actually runs the ecosystem and is the one who ultimately provides all of this for people. But, that is how it is.
I don’t get from you that you actually listen and entertain what other people say on God. I get this a lot, it is far from unique, it is the norm. People take as authoritative the crap they here from those that they know are bad people claiming to be Christian, and they refuse to even entertain anything said from Jesus or real Christians.
Sad, because God can help you in your material wants, but you have to put first seeking the Kingdom of God. Then, God provides whatever else so you can continue in that path without having to worry about material wants.
But, people don’t want to worship God, so God hands them over to Satan.
@five2one not necessarily. Between my and my friend’d material wants, we would bankrupt heaven… or at least strip its streets of pavement (gold). Y’see he wants to *literally* own/ have influence over the ^whole^ world. He says the psychologist says that he is an over achiever… but nore the truth that he’s a meglo maniac.
@Jear77 Shallow dreaming. Really meaningless. Not sure what else to tell you. Not even a dream that would make anyone happy. You would do well to face reality and realize if you aren’t happy now, you should seek it, now. You are definitely not happy.
@five2one That is from having to work at things i can’t stand doing. Money is the only solution to have freedom to do what you want, when you want, and how you want to do things. Without it problems arise and you have to rely on luck or skill to get through, and these run out so quickly it’s not even funny. You may be competent in X, but in real life you need to be competent in EVERYTHING… or have to pay for someone else to do it who is! And that takes money because NO ONE no matter who you are can do it all.
Even the solution to quit my job and beg for money isn’t a real solution, as I wouldn’t be WANTING to beg, when i have skills that can be sold if people can skip the whole interview process and just give me a trial project.
I am not the type of person to go out on the streets and beg for money (and even that’s work because you have to look pitiful). There’s this lady nearby who sits in a wheelchair outside walgreen’s and cries in a pitiful voice “Can you please give me some help!” Yet she never specifies the type of help she wants. I have a feeling because she’s so annoying someone’s going to help her to an early grave! Other people say “I need money for my child.” One person I talked to had a retirement fund and was pretending to be homeless because he was bored and figured he could leech off of society. I don’t want to do that.
@Jear77 If you are not of the world — then get out of it!
I appreciate this response, as you are explaining more of your situation. You are either of the world, or not. If you are poor in spirit, then ‘yours is the Kingdom of Heaven’. ‘Seek first the Kingdom, then all else will be added to you’. God highlighted that verse, and some others to me. I was fortunate, as I was unchurched, so I could hear God and not get corrupted by churches.
God has stayed true to His part of “the bargain” for me. But, God has kept the word for me. You can not keep it on your own, but the Father has to lead you and choose you. You do have responsibility, however to want to be led. To need to be led.
‘You can not have two masters. If you love money, you hate God. If you love God, you hate money.’
We need money to survive, but Jesus was very clear about this that ‘if you put first the Kingdom of God’ – ‘seek first the Kingdom of God’ (and always have that as your priority) – God handles everything else.
If you get a job at a big corporation, aren’t they going to make sure you have everything you need to work at your maximum potential? They pay even their janitors and door people enough to have shelter and food.
If you want a better job, and studied to get the skills, of course they will pay you as your skills not just demand, but require.
I am not talking about working at a corporation, this is a metaphor. I am talking about working for the Kingdom of God. You have to seek it.
Otherwise, you have what you want: the world. As, frankly, like me, a loser.
God takes the “losers” of this world, for the Kingdom.
If you want God to save you, you have to show God the necessary respect and read and keep the Word of His Son.
Obviously, you should not despise the literal poor, if you find your own self as poor in spirit, or God might put you in their circumstances.
All of your accusations against these things are worthless to you. Satan is the prince of this world, and there are many other princes of the world. Without God, that is where you are.
You may not be poor in spirit. You could just be some guy who happens to be poor financially, but is rich in spirit. There are plenty who are materially poor who have it very good in the world.
I can not really judge. What I can judge is you have not heard the word, can not keep it, can not retain it. Probably because ‘Satan steals it from you’. Probably because ‘the worries and cares of this world choke it out’.
You sound like you do not have the Spirit to lead you. That is step one.
@five2one the kingdom ain’t it’s all cracked up to be, it seems. The idea behind it is “work and you’ll be rewarded.” Yet the reward is always the same: death. If there was something else, there should be a reliable method of proving such. Or the best among us would be whisked away like Elijah. And the idea that god, should it exist, works invisibly, inaudably, in a way that there is no repeatabile evidence of at an individual level, leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
In regards to my physical situation, the place where I am living is extrenely unhealthy: it floods with sewer water. I think because of it, i had a case of dysentery. I am currently heavily mediated so as not to have sympoms. The landlord let the power go off up front, so we have to drag wires around, stringing them on chairs so we don’t get electrocuted.
So until i can move, and as i can’t go home to be told “i told you so”, deal with my idiot brother and bedbugs, i need to stay on my current course of going after the money.
@Jear77 Like I said, I have verifiable, repeatable results, but you don’t test God. Trust and testing someone are two different things. There are things you can test God on: repent, humble yourself and keep it secret, and God will reward you openly. Turn to God through Jesus, looking at the Word as written in the Gospels, the Good News for the poor.
Turn with your heart to God.
You are in a bad place, at least, according to what you tell me.
I can assure you, the Kingdom of Heaven provides eternal life. I have seen it and know it. It is now, today.
Nothing wrong with looking for a job, but you are asking for trouble if you think that you will get help by listening to the evil one in your heart telling you lies about God and the Kingdom will help your situation.
@five2one i don’t deal with interdimsional beings, the reality of which i can’t test.
@Jear77 “i don’t deal with interdimsional beings, the reality of which i can’t test.”
You do deal with interdimensional beings, but simply are unaware of it. First of all, everyone you deal with is from a different world. You do not know where they have come from, what their life experiences have been, or not been, or really who they are, at all. Generally, for interacting with people, we compromise in our language in order to do so, meeting pre-established goals with the definitions of “right behavior” and words.
The illusion that you are under, is an illusion we all are under on: the illusion that everyone has similar life experiences. That is the illusion we have to hold in order to function in society, to some degree.
With someone like me, that illusion is far less strong, as I know I do not have similar life experiences then typical people I come across on the street. Though, everyone, also, has this weakness in the illusion to some degree.
What this means for you, however, is that you really believe that no one around you or talking to you has had real access or really lives somewhere else strange enough to be able to call ‘not planet earth’.
But, this is simply your assumption: you simply have no idea what life experiences other people have. At all. No scientific way to prove it either. But, you assume. The reason you assume is lack of truly unusual life experiences.
This means the illusion is much stronger for you.
How can you know who someone else really is, that is, even from life experiences? Your life experiences are minimal. At best, you can try and get an idea from watching television, but both fiction and “reality” television have varying levels of untruth. You can try and get an idea from socializing in a wide variety of social groups. World travel can help. But this can be hard to have access to, so generally you have to go, “They do not know what I have been through” — and when you do that, you should apply that standard to others.
You do not know what they have been through.
But, clearly, a truly interdimensional being is something different. I am human, myself, I am, at least, certainly in the flesh. But, I deal with a lot of interdimensional beings, so I am probably as close as you can get next to your dealings with Christ, God, angels, and demons — which you are unaware of.
They come through other people, and they come through your own self. Everyone runs into them, as they run the entire world. But, you can not believe that. Few can.
You seem to not notice exactly how strange I am, which is good for me. I make pains to try and fit in, as I am not an angel, and it is hard to go back and forth between different realms, though I am not really in either realm.
(And also, I really am.)
I am not saying “follow me”, but I am saying, “have an open mind and try and trust me”. I do not see Griz having a wrong message, either. You do not know me, so there is that. I do this for free. What I get out of it, is it helps me sharpen my perceptions, and my disguise.
I do ask that you follow Christ to solve your problems, however, and that requires looking again at the Gospels. Listen to what Christ says as though he is speaking to you.
Otherwise, this is pretty trivial according to “scientific standards”, though modern science is extremely weak and archaic, as it tries to go by the assumption of objectivity and has not mastered, not understood, the dilemma of subjectivity. Which is a very real and observed phenomena on the quantum level, on the psychological level… and what they do not know, on a much, much wider scale. Indeed, on every level.
There is, though truth, but we are far from the ultimate truth, so this means we have to deal with subjectivity, bias, in everything. This leads to the conclusion that we must strive to be as unbiased and so as objective as possible. Which the scientific method attempts to do — and is good at it. On the current, archaic levels.
But, the core problem there is assuming we can ever really be as unbiased as we really need to be. We are unbiased enough, usually, to get about in the world without ending up in prison or the looney bin. Human beings in science and technology are unbiased enough to have created the technology we have (though they have had help). And so on. But, clearly, the world is far from imperfect. And if it was as random as people are deluded to thinking it is, it would be just that: utter chaos. Totalitarianism. Absolute barbarity. Really, though, the human race would not exist. We are far too vulnerable and weak.
Viruses, bacteria, natural disasters, wars, criminal acts, all of this and so much more would completely wipe us out.
The illusion is that there is a natural order not controlled by intelligent minds, but this is untrue.
As you do know, that illusion is there because people have eaten from the tree of knowledge. But, they are not responsible enough to give credit to their Father for this, so they have been turned over to the Destroyer, Satan.
There is a way out of that, but that way is only through Jesus Christ, as we have been proven to be unable to ‘master sin’ on our own. And ‘the wages of sin are death’. Which we can all even casually observe.
@five2one sorry, I can’t say I agree, not without some things in place… and they simply aren’t. Probably never be. Won’t heal my parents of their infirmities of old age, my brother of his alcoholism. And besides nothing will rewind time make me… i don’t know maybe 16 to 20 again with the knowledge i currently have, so the “debt” for the crappiness owed by life was worth the problems. So no, I can’t go there. Ever. Nothing is worth acknowledging something that allows such if it’s supposed to be infinitely powerful, wise, etc.
@Jear77 “sorry, I can’t say I agree, not without some things in place… and they simply aren’t. Probably never be. Won’t heal my parents of their infirmities of old age, my brother of his alcoholism. And besides nothing will rewind time make me… i don’t know maybe 16 to 20 again with the knowledge i currently have, so the “debt” for the crappiness owed by life was worth the problems. So no, I can’t go there. Ever. Nothing is worth acknowledging something that allows such if it’s supposed to be infinitely powerful, wise, etc.”
I am not saying, ‘leave your parents and brother in their need’. Quite the contrary, Jesus condemned those who had written clauses not in the Law so they could justify abandoning their parents in their infirmity.
You have to forgive others on planet earth who have caused you difficulties, and forgive your own self for your own sins. If you do not forgive others for the troubles they caused you, then you won’t be able to forgive your own self for your own sins.
We all tresspass against others. The world is very busy, and you are going to do this. And, others tresspass against you. There is also such a thing as tresspassing against God.
There is the illusion of God tresspassing against you — but that is just what it is, an illusion.
You have never truly turned to God, and you clearly now very much reject God, preferring to go your own way. So, you find yourself in Satan’s domain, the world.
The essence of this is you simply refuse to believe. Your heart, your spirit, is hard. When you even try to trust someone, you start to open up your heart and mind towards them. Door closed, door open.
You are locked in a room and can not get out. But, the key is in there… some place.
You are not even trying to look.
You are asleep, and can wake up from your awful dream, but you do not even know how to try to do so.
I am not part of your bad dream. I am an outsider intruding into it.
Saying, Wake up.
@five2one a god that can’t do simple shit simply can’t be trusted. And i have plenty of evidence that it can’t… because it doesn’t literally millions, maybe billions of times. Every. Single. Day.
@Jear77 “a god that can’t do simple shit simply can’t be trusted. And i have plenty of evidence that it can’t… because it doesn’t literally millions, maybe billions of times. Every. Single. Day.”
‘Painting God as wrong, does not make you right’.
Man is the cause of these problems, not God. This is why the world will be taken away from man.
I am glad that you agree that our global invasion from outer space is righteous, at least. Then, no one will complain about evil in the world any longer.
@five2one Then tell me why did God create evil? If god created the angels and the therefore the ultimate source of those that fell. By knowing from the get go they would fall, why not simply not create the ones that would fall to begin with? This is not a “mis-paint” this is the **exact **truth of how things are spelled out in scripture. So this is not man’s fault in the least with a god like that.
@Jear77 “Then tell me why did God create evil? If god created the angels and the therefore the ultimate source of those that fell. By knowing from the get go they would fall, why not simply not create the ones that would fall to begin with? This is not a “mis-paint” this is the **exact **truth of how things are spelled out in scripture. So this is not man’s fault in the least with a god like that.”
God did not create evil, evil is what exists which man and fallen angels have created. ‘God lives in light too terrible for man or angels’.
It is ‘what is not’, and will not always exist.
That is far from the future, but all are called now, to return to God. God’s hand is always outstretched.
If you have no hearing of the words of Jesus, as relayed in the Scripture, however, you won’t be able to find that.
Why not just try and trust someone and read it for once. Why not give them, the Apostles who wrote it, and Jesus who lived and spoke it, the benefit of the doubt, for once? I know, for me, I had to first read the entire book, then the Gospels.
This said, going through Scripture to try and find God, while denying God is all around you, and in your heart, and on your tongue won’t be very productive for you.
But, you have to see the invisible God, right there, and let God guide you.
We need a lot of help to make this world a better place.
But, thinking you can do it by money, is absurd.
Having such a shallow expectation as looking for answers from the material world, when God can do anything, is also not going to help you. The miracles described in Scripture really happened.
Right now, contrary to your viewpoint, is a very, very dark time. ‘Knowledge has increased’, but this is mostly knowledge which is not good, which you so admire.
You have to come out of the exile in Babylon.
@five2one FAR better not to have created at all than have evil be a possibility. To have no creation would make evil’s existence an impossibility. So by nature of creating something, evil was a byproduct. It’s spelled out in literally the first 10 words of the bible!
I have been and continue to operate in forums (electronic and actual) where the “theism vs atheism” battle rages, even unto comical degree.
And I find that most if not all of the exception people take to the concept of God is based on ancient dogmatic religious mis-interpretation of religion’s own sacred writings.
And that most if not all of the exception people take to the Judeo-Christian Scriptures particularly, is based on the presumption that the way we wrote books and recorded evidence in the past few hundreds years (since the Enlightenment) is the exact same way people ALWAYS wrote books and recorded evidence. Anyone with even rudimentary education in philosophy, anthropology, archeology, evolutionary psychology or ancient history will tell you just how ignorant such a presumption is.
And even great minds and intelligence like Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens and associated “Horsemen” can be blinded by a need to stick to ossified, simplistic and dogmatic interpretations of convenience so it’s far easier to service the negative emotions they carry . . . even while almost every one of them recognizes that sticking to ossified, simplistic and dogmatic interpretation is the very thing that renders the religious horrors they rail against.
If you’re up for being a spectator at an long intellectual discussion, consider the conversations Jordan Peterson had of late with Sam Harris in Vancouver (x2), Dublin and London.
Every time JP tries to break ground outside of the ossified dogmatic interpretation, SH takes great deference to it in ways that seem to sabotage the stance of “reason and intellect” he champions.
Because any entertaining that the goal-posts of “The Divine” that have been set in antiquity may not be accurate, means that packages of hate delivered through those antiquated goal-posts no longer “score a point”.
If the spiritual wisdom-traditions are not rigid, ossified and dogmatic, that means opposition to them can no longer be. And that’s a horrendous pain when one is convinced that they are absolutely right and everyone who believes differently is absolutely wrong.
(Actually the theistic religions suffer from the same process, making them feel they have the right to apply them in more and more totalitarian ways over others. It raises the very real specter that both theism AND atheism can be applied “religiously”, in the worst totalitarian, dead, dogmatic sorts of ways. Resulting in very similar aberrations.)
@griz Yes, found the same thing, with largely the same conclusions.
“If the spiritual wisdom-traditions are not rigid, ossified and dogmatic, that means opposition to them can no longer be.”
I do not have confidence any of them will change their viewpoints until Heaven is revealed in power to them — however that will be. I have had Heaven revealed to me in power, but this has been in private. I take this to be the Night, when the thieves are at work and nobody sees them.
When Day comes, then they will discover their house was robbed. They will run to the authorities, but find the doors shut to them.
Both the critics and the false ones hold to the same lies, showing they are of the same family.
They are not divided against each other, as they can appear when we refuse to judge them as they are.
They will be blinded by the sun, as they have been living in darkness.
It will be as ‘a dark and dreadful day’ for them, one where ‘the sun rises as a dark one’.
The few chosen will not find it this way, however, ‘as they have not been in the darkness, but kept awake, with their light burning through the night’.
For them, ‘the Morningstar rises in their heart’ as dawn begins to break, it becomes the inner sun.
Then, the people of the world will find the nobodies of this world have as if been replaced, for they will become as new creatures, butterflies broken free from their cocoons.
Right now, though, they can hear nothing and see nothing.
They just are as if we are not even there.
Maybe some are saved from such efforts we make, outside our own view. But, I find talking to either sort like talking to a wall. Both not only reject everything said, but seem entirely unable to even begin to approach the message with anything remotely resembling “independent thought”. They are zombies, asleep.
@five2one
The problem with prophesy is that one can only use it to preach to the choir.
And that’s the ultimate low-hanging fruit.
Everyone else, it just excludes and drives away.
@griz “The problem with prophesy is that one can only use it to preach to the choir.
And that’s the ultimate low-hanging fruit.
Everyone else, it just excludes and drives away.”
Wish you told John on Patmos this. :/
Glad to know you are an expert on prophets and prophesy. Do you get paid to do this, or go to college to get educated on it.
Well, I am not a prophet.
I am a portal.
I am not Jesus, I am Moses.
No riddle there, God told me that.
Take your insults to Him, why hit at people who tell you what they heard and saw from God? I know why that is. Because God does not talk to you. If He did, you would not treat people like me this way.
Why not go to God, instead of running around, trying to make converts?
Slandering people and things that are beyond your understanding?
Ask your self. Are you ravenous inside, and hide that? Maybe you tell yourself that it is something else.
Instead of that hungry wolf soul, hungry.
Practice target. Throw some pearls to swine, then let them come and grind the fence, while I make my getaway.
I am a portal. Not for men to Heaven, but for angels, to earth.