There was a story in the news from northern Canada about a 5 y.o. boy who wandered away from the supervised recess yard and drown in a municipal park pond. It is of course tragic, and condolences go out to those involved.
But now there are cries demanding the park pond be fenced as is required for backyard pools. I would point out that there is a glut of this kind of thinking; and all a pond fence does, is protect people from ponds with fences. We create so MANY of these “safety barriers” around all kinds of things and they become substitutes for learning, for growing, for understanding. There is a counter-argument that for kids at least, a world where 50% of the wild water features are fenced off . . . only creates increased fascination for and attraction with the 50% that are not!
There’s an old saying that children need to take risks to grow up. Close calls . . . and even the occasional fatality are all part of the process that teach us to keep our eyes open and ourselves safe . . . even IF someone should forget to bubble-wrap something potentially dangerous or warn us that hair-dryers are not to be used in the bath-tub and that coffee . . . . may be hot!
I know some things warrant fencing, particularly around man-made hazards. I’m not talking about them. More about the “corral the herd” thinking that is better applied to “lower” animals that run on instinct alone . . . or us trying to avoid bad feelings?
Are such fences to keep the children safe? Or just a bid to keep our emotions safe? Kids need to “risk” learning how to keep themselves safe.
© 2026 – SoulSequel
53 responses to “Are “more barriers” an answer?”
The question is should we exist in a world where tragedy should be avoided at all costs? I would say yes. If more barriers – legal, social, physical, emotional so these things don’t happen, I’m all for it.
There’s a video on the Game theorists where a person made a real life “creepypasta” video game hack. There are theories that this hack is based on the real life events that happened to a little girl who was killed by a combination of cruelty and stupidity.
Keep in mind that these events are true, only the video game is the creepypasta. The cruel part is that the adopted mother of the little girl, to cure her of behavioral issues took her to a psychological institute where the staff attempted to do a “rebirth,” representing that she now had a new mother by wrapping her tightly in blankets and sitting on her, a combined weight of over 600 pounds of weight. Instead of listening to her cries of help, her instance that she actually would DIE if the treatment did not stop, her pleas fell on deaf ears. She actually DID die from a combination of suffocation and choking on her own vomit, killed by those who were there to help make her “better,” more well behaved. And guess what? The person who was in charge of this got a sentence for only 12 or 15 years, of which she served like 7. The others got off scott free, or with a slap on the wrist.
What type of a world do we live in where such a sick thing can occur? All because of a lack of appropriate barriers.
@Jear77
Is it the tragedy we fear?
Or just the trauma to our emotions? A trauma that most people haven’t bothered learning how to control and heal?
I think we as a society are VERY trapped in an “antibiotic and hand-sanitizer” mentality . . . of seeking to avoid the very things (exercises) we need to make us stronger so we don’t NEED (develop dependency and even addiction) to antibiotic and hand-sanitizers!
There are times and places for these things . . . just as there are for barriers and fences.
But we have come to a place where we so lustily CRAVE them, not for the sake of “safety” . . . but for the sake of not having to learn to deal with (control) ourselves and our own feelings. So we don’t have to learn how to engage life without constant fear and worry. (Which BTW doesn’t mean we have to be foolishly cavalier about personal safety)
@griz Or we live in where we see these things and say that in no iteration of existence they should not ever be!
@Jear77
To mature we have to leave the toddler world where stoves, meds, doorknobs, stairways, electrical outlets etc are “made safe”.
And enter a world where we take responsibility and accountability for ourselves. For us to become adults . . . the nanny has to be let go!
@griz yet there are those who NEVER will grow up. Not due to any fault of their own, but because they die as children
@Jear77
That is their path.
And we don’t know what that is/was/will be. We only know our own.
That is not your path; so why are you “using” something that isn’t yours?
Empathy is not a bad thing. But “using” others to injure/victimize ourselves “by proxy” . . . is . . . foul.
To both parties, but moreso to the one having their path “thieved” for someone else to play emotional games with.
And perhaps the greater tragedy is not having one’s physical years cut short . . . but living a full span yet still not learning to take responsibility and control of their own feelings and self.
@griz Not where I’m going with this. You’re not the one who set this kit-n-kaboodle up. God is. And why shouldn’t he be “held to task” for having done so, if he exists? I see nothing wrong, nothing foul with this assessment of the situation. through the scriptures the only thing he seeks is control.And more often than not this control is at the expense of others’ relationships: family, friends, community, state, nation. And at day’s end has a destructive ripple effect.
Twould have been better for him to create true robots or puppets to play out game of chess.
@Jear77
And you are the one to hold God to task? The struggle with ego can be intense, for sure.
But where I was going is that you keep returning to “riding the ‘unfortunates’ into battle against God”. And this for your own greater glory.
Try working with terminally-ill children, or children of hardship for a while.
It might make you less inclined to use them like this for your own machinations against God.
@griz I am not, I have not that power. But perhaps a “mirror” is what I can be to show what can be done differently. At day’s end when I die, I’m not going to say “gee, I wish I were holier, I wish I worshiped god [more] truly, I wish I were more faithful to the cause, etc.” All these concepts are overrated. I’ll say “gee, I wish I were able to leverage more money, more community connectivity, more technology towards to help solve the problems of the world in an attempt to solve… (OR maybe even get the ABILITY to solve them in some small way with the wealth I’m able to acquire, wishing I could have done more) in my own limited ability them because god didn’t care enough to stop them or put this world into motion to begin with.”
@Jear77
A great regret at death, is that one didn’t live life to the fullest: the feeling that there was perhaps “something more” and just the things they did, the objects they acquired, the titles they’d gained.
And I openly question that at the moment of Ultimate Truth (death) one would pondering or worshiping money! (holding that it is “what will save”)
Very few are the people who manage improve the reality they are leaving with money. Usually it’s just fought over, frittered away, or used in ways they would not approve of.
But everyone can leave the world a brighter place spiritually.
Nobody is excluded save they wish it.
@griz The point is that I’m not the type of person who needs a whole heck of a lot. The money I am looking for would be put to work where it would do good to help others, as it’s blatantly obvious that god does not care enough to do anything about these situations, not to lavish “lifestyle improvements.”
@Jear77
Remember my friend, I’ve been with you through a lot of years of your struggle with this. I’ve given you the support I could.
And I’ve lived perhaps as many years as you under the pall of poverty. So I relate.
God CAN do “lifestyle improvements”. There are repeated cases, particularly in the Old Testament where they essentially applied Matt 6:33 LONG before it was spoken or penned . . . and truly “all these other things [were] added unto them”.
But then we have others, notably Noah and Jeremiah, were “lifestyle” certainly wasn’t “added unto them”.
So does that mean God “cared less” for them?
We cannot unwrap that one too much without being faced with the silliness of it.
@griz the point is I really don’t care for the lifestyle improvements too much, partly due to added responsibility of upkeep. I’m the proverbial “bull in the china cabinet.” I can live in a single room, provided I have a bathroom and kitchen AND the ability to come and go as I please (which doesn’t happen at my parent’s house, who worry if I’m out late)
@Jear77
As I’ve shared, I’ve been with you through much of the last decade or more (has it been 2 yet?), and have devoted considerable prayer and thought. I know that you don’t see a lot of value in that or in the insights I’ve gained from that,right now.
In my own life I’ve felt the sting and uncertainty of not enough money for even basic needs, like shelter. I’ve lived out of my car before, showering at the Y and job-hunting from a pay-phone. And I anguished why I couldn’t be “provided for” — either miraculously by God, by winning a lottery, or by Christians just doing what I read they’re suppose to do.
My “answer”, was that I wasn’t ready for it yet. It would do more harm than good; set me back in my personal development. I had a very “welfare” mindset regarding money, if you get my meaning.
But while I was angry, I never totally closed the door on God — and this meany my spiritual growth was progressing. Even though I was often pissed off at God, I was still His child.
And now, almost totally without my planning, many of those money issues are gone. Some might say I’m not a wise manager of my money, trying to help too many others as I wish I’d been helped.
But it’s interesting being able to explore living like this. And I can see that before, I wasn’t ready; and probably would have gotten myself into a LOT of trouble financially — or just blown it on superficial toys.
I don’t know what your path is. But I know your spiritual path hasn’t dead-ended. You’re at a big block right now that is so big it is all you can see.
But if you want it to be cleared and trust God even just like a mustard-seed . . . it will move in the proper time.
Which can really suck, if we’re not “in the proper time”!
I know from experience. But children think a lot of things suck that in the long run, work to their benefit.
@griz It’s not that I’m not ready for it. And it’s impossible NOT to be ready for it (IMHO). Gee, what are people who win the lotto advised to do? “Consult a financial planner” – duh! And with enough money you get not one opinion, but several… and the top of the line ones at that to be able to use it wisely…
@Jear77
Someone wise once told me that an assurance that we’re ready for it (whatever “it” might be), is a good indicator that we’re not!
(Which if you’re wondering, does play into spiritual arenas in my life. The assurance I have is not in my ability (the religion of self), but in God’s ability and desire to see me triumphantly through it).
@griz so you’re saying it would be impossible to consult financial advisors? EVEN the bible talks about how smart it is to have people looking out for you. Proverbs 11:14 KJV “Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.” So any situation can be faced if one has the ability to pay people to help guide you!
@Jear77
Lots of kids still get in trouble even with nannies to watch over them!
@griz Really? Are you saying you’re a child? Not a spiritual child. Not one in terms of maturity. An actual one. One who’s, I don’t know… a teenager or something? No.
@Jear77
I suppose allegory is lost on you? I’m very much a spiritual child.
BTW, I’m not the one obsessed with nannies (financial or Spiritual) to keep them from experiencing owwies.
I probably have more scars . . . of all kinds . . . than the average bear!
@griz which you have said you’ve gotten over. So either the healing’s complete… or it’s not
@Jear77
One aspect of choice and free will, is that God will not push more “healing” on me than I’m willing to accept. My spiritual healing is as complete as I can currently understand/accept — which means even greater realizations of it are to come.
My psychological/emotional healing is proceeding according to schedule.
But I accept this physical form is owned by death. Even Jesus physical form was, until the Spirit said differently. And this by a choice our species made long ago — and continues to be celebrated in each person to this day.
You may never have been seriously injured before. I can attest that healing-in-progress is a wonderful thing. Especially after experiencing “stalled healing”.
But I accept that not everyone has had this experience unto this outlook of gratitude.
Sometimes we just like to bitch that things are not instantly perfect to our standards! (BTW, that’s a spirit that owns a person over time)
@griz That’s gibberish. What you’re saying is that it’s something that covers the symptoms… for the time being. Meaning that you’re susceptible to re-injury if you get exposed to the wrong things, despite your protestations that you’re not.
I’ve not been seriously injured… but have had my share of severe problems. For years I had bronchitis that would not go away. I need to be aware of what I eat so I don’t have stomach problems. Being stuck in a bathroom isn’t fun. In years past I had ingrown toenails; as soon as one was fixed, another seemed to appear. Growing up I had to wear casts on my legs for months at a time while my Achilles’ heel was stretched out.
@Jear77
Not so. It’s something that starts the process in the time being that renders one more capable and empowered to avoid re-injury and to more effectively manage any injury that might still occur.
This enables me to no longer fear and protest when “Life happens” (because it will regardless of my fear and protests!).
Wow. You have been through a lot.
The fungus. Don’t forget the fungus.
So we are left with my witness of having been through so much, having been exposed daily to horrible suffering of someone I loved, having done my own share of prolonged suffering and almost dying. Abuse of a kind many people cannot relate to. And more.
Yet here I stand saying that this stuff works amazingly well, and delivers on promises in a way unlike anything else ever has.
And after all of this fellowship and process, winning the lottery or getting a ranch in the shadow of the Rockies or not being magically immune to AIDS or diabetes or cancer or physical pain or chronic halitosis or the natural conclusion to physical life really doesn’t factor big on my list of “blocks, triggers and fears”.
Actually, I’m not even sure I have such lists anymore! And life is a heck of a lot more challenging in an enjoyable learning sort of way . . . than I’ve ever known before.
@griz Maybe I’ve gone though more but don’t consider it topic of polite conversation? Also keep in mind these are public forums…
@Jear77
There are ways to share privately.
And I think you know I can deviate from “polite conversation” if necessary.
What remains, is that I’ve risked participation and fellowship with the Holy Spirit, gained much, overcome much, and don’t have to wait for some pie-in-the-sky thing that cannot (yet) be proven! I have EVERYTHING I need, right here and now.
I can have a testimony of power and victory despite all that has happened to me and around me. And it’s something you don’t understand from a standpoint of what you’ve experienced (religion).
You say you’re not interested. But at least part of you is or you wouldn’t still be searching. If you’d found something that worked even marginally as well, you probably would not still be looking.
@griz the only thing I’m looking for is to be left alone… by everyone… forever.
This can’t be an all or nothing solution.
Sensible determination of what is considered overtly dangerous and that which is marginal.
This question took me off on way too many tangents to stay focused, but it all came down to abdication of responsibility by caregivers, specifically parents, to take the responsibility to protect their offspring through interactive experiences.
In your example, go to the water. Balance the experience with freedom and oversight. Don’t teach them about the water only by letting them experience it cybernetically
There is a process to education associated with safety and it includes understanding the real risks.
@spitfire3dc Believe it or not I almost drowned (or did, and my life was saved) when I was young. Years later I learned how to swim (by of all things, being pushed into the water ;-P) I go swimming, but I also know my limits. If it’s unsafe (riptide warnings, no lifeguard) I know not to go into the water.
@Jear77
LIke you, I had many close calls growing up.
We used to call it . . . . growing up!
And the parent’s job was to handicap us towards surviving our close calls until such a time we could become our “own parent” and keep ourselves safe, healthy, provided for etc.
Because all of the insisting and herding and haranguing will just NOT teach certain children how to be safe in the world. Nor, will it teach them how to know their limits. We have to survive surpassing our limits . . . to know just where that line is.
@griz what is acceptable, optimal, even “good for you” changes a lot… and can even change moment by moment. That’s one of the biggest challenges for me to get a job, as I can’t read situations.
@Jear77
What changes more, is perspective.
I cannot count the number of times I was SO sure something was good for me, when the fullness of time revealed that it wasn’t. (So if I have a faulty perspective of “good”, where does that leave “optimal” but in the hands of the Almighty!?)
Even those who are good at reading situations, can be led astray and outright blinded by feelings. I’ve found huge value in being able to give all this over to God, and approaching both losing one job and gaining another, with a calm composure that netted results far better than what I could have imagined had I approached them just on my own power.
And they form part of the accumulating “proof” that this is both a good and exciting path I’m on. But they only came . . . by putting down all the excuses and risking “participating”.
@griz not necessarily. Someone is healthy and gets an illness (even something temporary like a cold or a mild case of the diarrhea) or breaks a bone that affects their mobility. Something they may have thought nothing of, becomes hugely problematic.
Or let’s say that someone used to do something criminal or mean and they have to defend themselves from the exact same thing. That’s perspective of a sort, yet at day’s end they see what happens when the shoe’s on the other foot. Many times though the only thing that a change of perspective will start is a cycle of revenge… so is it really a change of perspective?
@Jear77
Outside reality didn’t change. Their perspective did; because how they have to interact with it did.
The “revenge cycle”?
I suppose it depends upon how much perspective has changed! The desire to “get back at” those still trapped in the cycle, actually means they are still trapped in the cycle, for it still controls and dictates their perspective.
Also in what you offer is the invite to wisdom in seeing that even behaviors we’ve ceased . . . can have long-reaching effect and consequence.
And “ownership” into self-defeating cycles we still subconsciously participate in. Participation in religion is one of these things that can produce long-term entrapment of our perspectives and thoughts.
The only way to escape, is to adequately change one’s perspective.
@spitfire3dc
This is exactly it: taking the time to interact with children and not just relying on “child-proofing”. Restore the interactive activities from which growth come; rather than just relying on barriers and “herding”.
” to take the responsibility to protect their offspring through interactive experiences.”
A perfect example are those school-bus “safety wands” that fold out from the bumper to “herd” the children away from crossing right at the bus’ bumper where there is limited line-of-sight for child to see car and vice versa.
We used to actually train the children in this: take them out of the bus and show them, and then provide reminders when they inevitably forgot. Do it enough, and good processes of watching out for themselves are formed over time.
Then it became forget the training and just insist they do it, for reasons they had no experience with. (With inevitable rebelling against things they had not been taught to see).
Now it’s forget all interaction with anything . . . except a barrier that “herds” them where they should be.
The adults have utterly failed in this regard . . . and painted it bright yellow to make sure everyone is absolutely aware of their failure to interact/communicate with the next generation!!!
Valuable life-lessons are not learned at an early age . . . but at least WE adults can have our feelings safe under the illusion of “protection”. If a child gets hurt, it’s not our fault.
It’s the “safety wand”!
there should be some limit, boundary and responsibility in most scenarios. one if not another. what scares me about stories like this is who was responsible for the child? i would say that for the sake of safety, and to protect against moments where yard duty people are busy and dont have eyes on all children, the yard should have the fence not the pond…
@BelleMadre
That was my thought too; rather than fencing the wild natural area (the pond).
5 is very young, and this for sure is a tragedy. They need to be kept safe until such a time as they can interact responsibly with their natural heritage. Denying it to them would be a mistake. One that is likely to rebound.
And our natural heritage, so to speak, takes us all in time. Just barely within grasp is perhaps an analogy of us wanting to isolate ourselves from it?
@griz
i think even if we arent parents, it is to some extent our job is to protect and teach those who need it. until it is our job to let go. maybe its a time and place thing… parents, caregivers, other humans… im in an in between place as a parent right now. im still modeling and teaching smarts, but learning how to and giving room for independence, but also aware of personal limits. its still my job to keep him safe, but also more and more my place to let him learn his lessons. but i can do that without putting him in grave danger or too much at risk…. and it is someone elses job to ensure his safety when he is away from home. at school or clubs or sitters or friends or who ever i trust with his care. that is the world. until he is of the age where he is going it for himself more… and then i guess there are lessons and laws in place and choices to make. but thats another ranting ramble :D
here is an example of where my position right now… there is this garbage shed attached to a business in the neighbourhood. the door to the shed is often unsecured. the kids of the neighbourhood like to climb the bins and sit on the roof of the shed. which in theory and part isnt that big a deal. its not even one story. but i dont let mine, because sometimes the garbage bins (large industrial sized, you know? the green ones with the raiseable lids?..) arent closed and kids could slide in. there could be broken glass, sharp objects dangerous items, gross things…. i think it is still my responsibility as mother of a pre teen, to set rules and boundaries. so no, i dont want him climbing the lids of the bins to sit on the roof of the shed. if i had it my way i would stop the other kids from climbing it too. sometimes i explain why i think its a bad idea. but they arent mine. so if i am not in the area i am not responsible. of course i could get in touch with the business and suggest that it is their responsibility to make sure the bins are closed, the doors secured. but would that stop kids from climbing and landing in the trash? i dont know. maybe thats not on me, but for now making a rule for my own child is still my responsibility, in my opinion. (this isnt to say that when i was a bit older than him i wasnt climbing things i shouldnt, but i still have some time to say so yet…). at parks i always said if you can do it you can do it… like for climbing walls and structures. id help sometimes, but also, if you cant get up you cant do it. once you can, you can. do i stop him from climbing onto the roof of structures? no. do i ask him not to jump off so he ends up in another cast? yep. cause im mom lol but do i stop him from climbing trees or jumping off the high diving board? nope.
its all relative but i do think (more now i am a parent) that responsibilities lie some where…
@BelleMadre
It’s a tough job being a parent. The parent’s feelings of wanting to protect them clash head-on with the child’s desire to learn and explore for themselves and to “not be treated like a child”.
My own mother was over-protective, and a willful and curious young boy rebelled against that by rushing out to do the very things he’d been told not to: some of which I hadn’t been considering doing, until I heard they were forbidden!
I was amply warned ahead of time against doing things that were foolish. I knew another boy who was grated great freedom up to the point he did something foolish, and then his father gave him a psychological chewing out that could peel wallpaper and make the paint shrivel.
We both survived childhood and turned out differently, but each of us turned out more-or-less OK over time. Even today, I cannot really say which of us was better off — though subjective experience had me wishing that I had more freedom and self-determination, a shorter list of rules to keep track of, and less guilty conscience for ending up breaking most of them and half-expecting her to jump of the allegorical trash-bin I was jumping on to haul me off by my ear!
And I have heard this other fellow wishing his father in particular, had “cared enough” to lay some ground-rules and not just reactive negatively when he went too far.
BTW, those new industrial trash bins with the plastic lids are far more dangerous than the ones of our era. They are flimsy and cave in easily.
What I think would have worked most effectively in my case would have been a sharing of concerns over these things (rather than threatening me not to do them!); and then as my dad did several times, reading me the riot act not for breaking rules . . . but for making my mom worry.
I remember one time where I played hooky. The school notified my home and while I was kicking up my heels downtown I guess she was imagining every kind of skulduggery that could befall a boy. I guess she called my dad at work and he came home to sit with her between bouts of going out looking for me.
There was no punishment for that one . . . other than being told exactly what I put my mother through.
@griz i feel like im doing the right thing, although i need to test us both out more. i need to trust him, and i need to let go a little more myself. i watch him til he is in the school yard more for me than him, you know? a little neurotic maybe and maybe a goal for myself this year. turn away before he is through the gate? or not, because we have that little wave before we turn towards our days. itll come.
i come from extremes. i grew up in pretty isolated circumstances, until i was 14 and then i was relatively unsupervised. so i was a pretty naive kid, willing to take any risk presented. or any dumb risk. too bad i didnt channel that into more productive things like learning how to drive hahahaha oh well. im here now. mostly not worse for wear, could have done without a few choices that i still live with the echos of, but lessons learned at last. where does this leave me as a parent? on occasion relieved i have a son not a daughter because i know what i was out doing and thats terrifying as a parent :D
i think im doing good by him. he will get there. i dont hold him back in terms of abilities but im not letting him roam the neighbourhood unsupervised just yet. besides when im on the yard i have a handful of kids who want to shoot hoops with us, so i think they like having an adult present. and he isnt complaining yet :D
@BelleMadre
Where does this leave you as a parent?
If you’re asking this, probably in a better place than most!
I don’t know if the nature of boys has changed over the years. If so, not by much I’d wager! He probably does (or will soon do!) more unsupervised wandering than you may ever be aware of!
But this is where time spent in early childhood training comes in. There comes a place where a parent needs to trust in that training. Still ask the proverbial “meal-time questions” that show you’re interested in how he’s doing out of your sight, and that you indeed are not just going to remove your oversight of him.
But he will also need to see that you are trusting him. And that when he will go against that trust that you are concerned, disappointed, even hurt NOT by him as a person, but by the choices he made.
Properly executed, the desire to “not hurt your momma” factors big in most boy’s lives. What had the most impact on me was not when she punished me or chewed me out . . . but the times when I’d worried or disappointed her enough that there was only a sad look, or the silence that said she’d really been worried/hurt by my actions. I almost wished she would lambaste me and give me something to mutter and rebel over! (yea, a different age!).
It was not wanting her to worry that eventually trained me to call home if my plans changed. In the modern age I really wonder about those phone-tracking apps, and if they send the wrong message about growing trust in them? Were I a parent and my kids had phones, I would want to track them to a certain age, but then sit them down and let them know that I wanted them to experience their own life without me always “tracking” them . . . but that they should expect I would still be concerned for them and want them to answer my occasional parental calls and texts wondering where they were and how they were doing.
I don’t think I would have to always be asking WHAT they were doing, perhaps inviting them to get used to lying to me! But I would want to know HOW they were doing. As a boy I think I would have valued the impression that they were always there, and concerned in love . . . but that they were “giving me my space” . . . uh . . . to make my own mistakes and learn from them (??)!
@griz
i very much agree! and his wandering days are close around the corner i think… so im trying to give him chances to learn to make smart decisions or at least to look in all directions before riding across the lot :D
im big on privacy, and showing him ways to have his own space. his friendships are important to him and i want him to know he is a separate entity from me. but i like that we communicate and are still close. ill have to recruit an older cousin to teach him how to shave or ill just do that too :D but thats a ways away yet. other conversations to have before then. (im suddenly supplying him with irish spring soap and pushing showers like i used to push naps haha geez)
@BelleMadre
When I started wanting to stretch my self and railed against parental concern/supervision/veto-power, my dad rather wisely hit me upside the proverbial head with the notion that he had a responsibility to God to keep me safe until I was mature enough to know how to keep myself safe.
And that I wasn’t there yet, even if I was sure I was! He reminded me of the fact that the young brain really isn’t mature in reasoning and decision-making until the late 20’s! That he would give me more and more freedom to make my own decisions; but that he could still exercise the right to task me on poor decisions he thought I was about to make (or even outright veto them!) for as long as I was living under his roof.
It was a very effective strategy, considering my upbringing in the church. He wasn’t raining on my parade just for the fun of it. He was trying to honorably exercise a responsibility given him by God Himself.
It sort of knocked the wind out of my rebellious-teen-sails a few times!
(From the photo-set, “Why Boys Need Parents”)
@griz i feel like on one hand i know what im in for and on another i dont know whats coming lol
so im trying to roll with it and test my own boundaries as he tests his
@BelleMadre
My thought is that a love that is strong enough to let go when it’s time, would guide you wisely.
It’s resulted in a relationship with my dad where advice I’d resent him offering at one time . . . I now actively seek out. Even despite a couple of “veto’s” that in hindsight both of us agree were unnecessary or in error.
A good relationship can roll with such things, so don’t shy away from it if you really feel the need to apply it. (Especially if he’s willful!)
(From “Why Boys Need Parents)
Well, I’ve seen two extremes of national parks:
America, where everything is nicely mapped out for you and there are railings everywhere and everything is made safe, but only young adults usually trek the trails.
Italy, where my Mom and I climbed a steep mountain (a popular one), where there were no railings whatsoever, yet there were families with old people (~80) and small children climbing all the way to the top, on a trail much tougher and precarious than most I’ve seen in the US. On the way up, my Mom and I passed a group of boys about 12 or 13, walking all by themselves (I’ve never seen that in the US, even on a regular street)
Now I have to wonder, which place would I want to raise kids in? I’d pick Italy.
Little kids in, say, Romania, where I grew up, would not get themselves drowned in a pond. They are raised differently, because parents and relatives and other older kids spend time with them and show them the ropes and provide a sense of community where everyone looks out for each other. In N America it’s little kids with little kids and big kids with big kids, at school or at daycare and then at home with mom and dad, and heaven forbid should an adult talk to a kid.
So if a kid is so ignorant that he drowns himself in a pond, you can put a barrier around the pond all you want but he’s only going to find another way to get himself killed. It’s not dealing with the root of the problem.
Those are my thoughts.
@georockstar09
And interesting thoughts they are.
Canada has a mix of both kinds of parks. The more popular and accessible ones tend to have barriers and various “herding mechanisms”. Who’s very presence BTW, is seen by most young males as a challenge/invite to see what lies beyond them!
But we also have a lot of pure wilderness parks where it’s presumed if someone is competent enough to get to them, they are competent enough to be there.
And most of them have little communities nearby so it’s not uncommon to see groups of older kids alone, out playing in them.
Having lived to that age out in a wilderness area without barriers, they have a better grasp of the dangers there than most of the adults who would visit, fancying themselves rugged outdoors-people!
5 years old is “ignorant”. But in a very innocent sort of way. They need our protection; ideally in the form of our watchful eye; helping them survive long enough to learn to expertly navigate the inherent dangers of life.
I just really don’t like the process of putting up a fence around life with signs saying, “Do Not Enter! You might get hurt!”.
BTW, an interesting off-shoot of our zeal to render children safer: We’ve successfully gotten to the point where it’s OK if not actually cool to be seen wearing a bike or skateboard helmet. But next time you see the exceedlngly rare sight of a child actually engaged in such outdoor physical pursuits . . . look to see how many of them actually have them strapped on!
Or as a visitor to MANY union factories and work-places I get to see the VAST ARRAY of safety-features . . . defeated with a piece of duct tape or just given lip-service because they’re bothersome!
Apparently we value the IMPRESSION of safety, and the pursuit thereof. But that’s about it.
@georockstar09 id vote italy too in this scenario!
i grew up in rural ontario, in canada, where there were beaver ponds in our back yard and i was considered responsible for the survival of myself and my siblings. if my sister climbed a tree my mum would shrug and say well she can get herself down then! my brother would go up and try to guide her back down. we were kind of free range kids. to the point where i think i would cringe now thinking back on our liberties. but it was the trees the rivers and nature. now im raising a child in the city and i Wish i could just say o go on outside and play good luck survive :D but i cant. not in the city.
i miss that freedom for him.
@BelleMadre
A city kid is a different kind of creature.
But doses of their wilder natural heritage and freedom (vacations, day-trips, a cottage, going to camp) benefit them greatly!
Our family always lived on the city fringes and outskirts. I had both city and country adventures; city and country friends.
That’s probably why I am such a huge fans of summer camps for city kids; and worked in them for so long.
Yea, there were the kids where the parent’s couldn’t give a shit and just wanted someone to pawn off the youngling while they went out and played like they had no kids!
But there were the those where the parents wanted their youngster to experience “who they were” without parents around but still in a controlled setting. It was a real joy to connect with them.
@griz i wanted to do things different, and i guess i am. but i wish he had more of the freedom. ah well, in time. that is what makes it so great when it does happen. we go for lots of walks. live in a relatively nice area for a city, i guess …
its a balance. im a big fan of kids being themselves, to grow into the individuals they have the capacity to be. and i think he is a great kid in that sense. but i guess i still want to keep him safe, you know? ill have to find something else to do as he gets older :D (part of why im trying to find more work – give myself something else to think about!)
he is certainly not isolated and maybe lives in a relatively controlled environment but he is free to be he, as long as he is respectful that he shares this space, in the process :)
@BelleMadre
That wish for him may well manifest in the choices he makes later in life. Or could skip a generation and become manifest in his children.
I understand the wish to “do things differently”. But children are amazing critters! They flourish off parents doing the best they can in any given situation.
I also understand the desire to keep them safe . . . from everything! But it’s a lot like the hand-sanitizer-mindset; in denying them the experiences they need to grow strong.
I think there is an important balance with boys (I don’t know with girls, because I never was one!)
For sure, they need protecting from themselves — from their more primitive urgings and stupider notions of their own indestructibility!
They need to know that someone cares and is watching out for them . . . but also can grow to resent it if it’s over-done.
I imagine it would be a slightly different balance-point for each boy. But the ones measuring it (the parents) are also having to balance their own wants/needs against it!
(Image from the “Why Boys Need Parents” photo-set)
@griz its like this… i like that you want to learn how to ride a skate board but i demand that you wear a helmet while doing it :D (his skate board is a bit simpler than the pic. also thats adorable and cool and i want a turn :D)
@BelleMadre
I can just see his brothers in the background doing “fing-fong-phooey” over who gets to hit the switch!
(From “Why Boys Need Parents”)