“When we deny the spiritual dimension to our existence, we end up living like animals. And when we deny the physical, sexual dimension to our existence, we end up living like angels. And both ways are destructive, because God made us human.”- Rob Bell
What aspect of your humanity are you denying? Is it healthy to deny parts of self?
© 2026 – SoulSequel
29 responses to “Denial”
I endeavor to exercise both.
I would ask, did that quote say “sexual” or “sensual”?
The latter includes the former, and more accurately portrays the fuller gamut of animal nature where feelings are not subject to any mastery or filtering by intellect or reason.
They are free to run amok. And that is quite descriptive of the human experience without a spiritual anchor.
Anything goes, at the behest of feelings-in-the-moment.
@griz but is it okay to exercise that side of yourself without feeling guilty, as long as you no harm is done?
The quote said sexual
@Scarlett
Then I submit it would be a more versatile thought with “sensual”. this covers all the things that can run away with us unto behaving like lower animals.
Our senses and feelings are a part of us: there for a reason. The problems (trespass) comes when they are misused; particularly as one’s main drive and motivation. This is where almost every “sin” against others God or self occurs.
The feelings have you rather than you having them.
Sexual feelings have great potential to blind and control us.
That is why they are such a focus in the Bible and such limitations are put up on it (monogamous heterosexual lifelong Covenant). That is where we get in the least trouble with it running away with us, or marginalizing any children that result. (Echoes of the original sin into future generations).
Sex is not pleasurable by mistake! It’s there to be enjoyed. But it’s fun with responsibility. If its just “responsibility”, the relationship and resulting children suffer to many generations. (A love-less union)
If its just for fun, several relationships and all the associated offspring can be affected for many generations.
the idea is perhaps to have a good time , but while learning about the long reaching effects of irresponsibility and letting our feelings run away with us.
I am not spiritual at all. In a gathering that sits still to pray and have a spiritual moment, I am thinking of tacos and the taste of the meat filling and the freshness of cheese and crisp lettuce. We smile and our eyes meet and I try to guess what kind of cookies the hostess has bought for this prayer meeting. Then, I imagine in my mind what I will buy at the grocery store. — yeah, I am an animal, always thinking of food. I worship at the order window of Del Taco. When I open the bag and eat the tacos, that is as “spiritual” as I get.
As for sex, I keep it private and sane. I have only one partner and he is satisfying to me.
I am no angel by any means. Put me in front of tacos and I am an animal until all the wrappers are empty. ———– ahhhhh, today is Taco Tuesday, my favorite day. Tacos and Deadliest Catch on tv. That is pure Paradise!!!
@ladybarbara why bother? What do you get out of it?
@Scarlett All of my friends are Baha’i and it gets me out of the house into a cigarette smoke-free environment that doesn’t smell of cat boxes and dreary darkness for a few hours and tea and cookies with people who are not war-like, but also voted for Trump and share my own values. There are no shoot-em-up movies playing on tv. Everything is social and peaceful. I tolerate the prayers just to have the quiet social with friends.
If I don’t have an outlet to get out of the house, I would go completely bonkers.
@ladybarbara
Baha’is are not supposed to say who they voted for!! 
But oh well. I didn’t really learn about prayer until I went to Haifa. But I still hate praying with other people, unless we are praying for something specific. I prefer open firesides, where people share their views. More interesting and intellectually stimulating.
@ladybarbara Sorry, I hope that did not come off as rude or anything, I’m just so surprised. We get constant reminders from National not to ever talk about politics. So I’m surprised that your Baha’i friends mentioned being Trump supporters.
@georockstar09 No, you did not seem rude. I know that politics is not to come up, but we have one lady in our community that openly backbites the President with loud and foul attitude and everyone else in the room made it clear that we respect the office of the Presidency. It was clear that President Trump is respected in that room.
When I was invited back into the Baha’is, I made it clear that I felt that the Baha’i community I had left in Los Angeles was a “Nest of Liberals” and I did not want to rejoin in Arizona if I was faced with the same attitudes. I was assured that the Baha’is of Arizona were more to my liking and would not be frowning on my relationship with Immortal Pirate, nor my political beliefs. I might sometimes be a rogue. I am always pushing the boundaries. I make it clear that I am 70 years old and my relationship with Immortal Pirate is NOT to be held to Aqdas standards of a 20 year old. I always have the option to rip up my membership and call it quits. Last night I was told that I was EXPECTED to be at a meeting Friday night. I said that Immortal Pirate and I have a “Pirate” party to go to and if given a choice between attending something with Immortal Pirate or attending Baha’i meetings, Immortal Pirate and family will always come FIRST with me. I am always on that balance where I am about to walk out and not come back. I am THAT KIND of Baha’i.
@ladybarbara OK, I see. Yeah, the political talk rule goes both ways – but most of all we shouldn’t talk badly about political figures, even if we did not vote for them. We should still respect them. Ideally, one would have absolutely no clue as to whom other Baha’is voted for. After all, we each used our best judgment, as best we knew. And even more ideally, every member in the Baha’i community is neither liberal nor conservative.
Seems to me like you are almost fed up with the Baha’i community. I have heard of some problematic communities in California, so I’m not too surprised. That is, I’ve known another person or two that faced problems there. Luckily for me, the midwest communities I’ve been to have been really nice so far, with blissful ignorance about politics, so I guess I haven’t faced the same problems as you.
@georockstar09 My biggest problem was when I first started helping Immortal Pirate after his wife died. He needed a vacation with his daughter to go visit family and he and I began to be a couple. I stayed at his house for a month. I took care of the house and animals while he was away. Then I spent a few weeks extra. When I got back to California, I got a talking to by the Baha’is. They did not approve. So, I had to choose between having a partner and being Baha’i. I chose Immortal Pirate. I walked out on the Baha’is for about 6 years. I had 6 happy years of freedom from the meetings and feasts. 6 glorious years of freedom!!! I bought half of the house and Immortal Pirate and I co-own. I sold my California house. So, if the Baha’is here in Arizona start giving me problems, then I will choose my life with Immortal Pirate and more years of freedom from them.
@ladybarbara “Freedom” is an interesting choice of a word. There are many people in my community who almost never come to feast or assembly meetings and no one bats an eye. And we have no idea what goes on in their personal life, unless they get divorced (only the LSA knows ofc).
What puzzles me is, if you’ve been together for so long and have a house together, you may as well be married. Sign a marriage certificate, do the thing with the lines with the one Assembly member as witness, and then have lunch. Problem solved with respect to Baha’i laws. It sounds like it would just be an administrative thing at this point, but I’m sure you have your reasons.
Me, I’m probably on the other side of the spectrum, trying to get people involved in simple, friendship-building things, like cleaning the center or organizing music nights. But here it’s like pulling teeth sometimes to get people to come, and I wind up cleaning the center on my own. Somebody’s gotta do it, otherwise we get cockroaches, and at least I get to hang out with the books.
@georockstar09 I think that Immortal Pirate made a promise to never remarry when his wife died. He does NOT want to get married. Never ever. He made that clear from the very start. Also, as with most people who are seniors, retired, and on pensions, who have had several marriages, I get the Social Security and pension of my deceased late husband and that will end the moment I remarry. The money is so good that I do not want to lose that Teamster pension or the amount of Social Security.
I made it clear to him that I do not want a partner who is Baha’i. I would not want to live my life around a schedule of meetings, Firesides, and Feasts that I can’t get out of. Every Baha’i marriage that I see is always going to all the meetings, Firesides, Ruhi classes, and gatherings. Their whole marriage centers around the Baha’i Faith.
I know what you mean with committing to clean and hope that others will want to help and clean with you —- then you end up being the only one showing up. I had that happen in 1993 with the formation of the Baha’i Youth Workshop Members forming the dance teams that performed all over the cities. They needed management and food and lodging. I ended up doing so much of the work alone. Everyone was excited about the Youth Workshop, but did not want to put up with 50 teens with sleeping bags and big appetites for lots of food. After about 6 months of working mostly alone, I washed my hands of it and walked away. I got fully burnt out.
@ladybarbara Aah, yes, that makes sense. I can understand that. I figured there must be some kind of underlying practical reason.
I could never get tired of serving the Faith, but my parents and I are all tired of Ruhi. We’ve pioneered to Africa and Eastern Europe, and there’s so much more to the Faith than these kinds of Baha’i gatherings. They’re great and all, they serve a purpose… but there’s just so much more to the Faith.
@georockstar09 I know that the pressure is always on to teach the faith and bring new members to the faith. I totally do not want to do that. I do not like pushing my religion on another person. I don’t like the idea of bringing change to other people. It is like saying that what they believe in is not good enough. I don;t argue well. I don’t debate well. So, in any conflict, I simply bow out and walk away. Some Mormons came to our door and Immortal Pirate was talking about the Bible to them and comparing their religion to his with the respect that their religion is a good one, as well. Then he brought me into the conversation and said, “Tell them about the Baha’i Faith.” —-yeah, I drew a blank. I don’t do well when pressured to teach. I mumbled something about the Bab and Baha’u’llah and the year 1844, but I froze up and choked when asked questions. I was not able to enlighten them on what the faith was about, or even progressive revelation. I don’t think the goal is that everyone should become Baha’is, but rather, we should have respect and tolerance of each person’s belief and be happy that they have something that gives them peace. I don’t believe in the New World Order the way the Illuminati wants the One World Government. The Illuminati is bringing it with Satan and evil. Baha’u’llah’s vision of a new world order has nothing to do with the Illuminati views. Witchcraft, Satan, and Skull and Bones was never part of Baha’ullah’s world vision. However, that is what people think when they hear of Baha’u’llah’s plan of world unity in a New World Order.
@ladybarbara Right now the focus is no longer to bring new people into the Faith, if I understood that right from the youth conferences a few years ago. Right now we are more into building communities, and we don’t care so much if folks become Baha’is, but that they join us in the process of community building. I was a junior youth group animator and half the kids weren’t Baha’is, yet even those kids, at the end of it, wanted to be engaged in junior youth groups of their own and kind of pay it forward, with service projects, etc. (of course, some groups are successful, some aren’t. The ones that are, they move the world)
As for informing people about the Faith, I just memorize the principles and rattle them off, saying “we believe in x,y, and z”. It’s easier, and I find those to be the things people find most interesting anyway. I also found that when I inform people about the faith, it ends there. I highly doubt that there’s anything I could say to get them to become Baha’is. It’s usually the people who seek out the Baha’i Faith on their own who eventually become Baha’is. I’ve rarely seen it otherwise.
I’ve never heard of the Faith being seen as Illuminati
but I never bring that part up. I just read Abdu’l-Baha’s talks and writings, and try to imitate Him.
@georockstar09 Immortal Pirate sees the Baha’i “New World Order” as being like the Illuminati New World Order. I have to tell him that they are not alike.
I like your way of just sharing the principles. I think I would like to try that. It would be less overwhelming.
I heard about the faith from my Grandma when I was a child. Grandma would read to us her letters from Lua Gettsinger. Grandma became a Baha’i in 1912 when Abdu’l- Baha went to the graveside of Thornton Chase on his American visit. Although Grandma became a Baha’i immediately. There were no communities in the Los Angeles area in 1912. Her only news about what was happening with the Baha’is were the letters from Lua for four years, until she died in Egypt. To me they were just letters and I did not get it that the Baha’i Faith was a real thing until I was 33 years old. At 33, I found a job at a factory electronics firm (Sullins Electronics in San Marcos, CA) that had 300 employees and 5 of them were NOT Baha’i —– but 295 of the workforce were Baha’i. Working with Baha’is, it was a cinch that I would become a Baha’i. I became a Baha’i in 1981.
@ladybarbara That’s so cool! I wonder if I read about your grandmother in some Baha’i history book.
I was born into a Baha’i family. We were pioneering in Somalia until the war broke out, and then continued pioneering in Romania (Africa was getting unstable all over, at the time). We were the only Baha’i family in my hometown in Romania for a while, until we got a few people to join the Faith. Because they were new, I learned how to differentiate the religion from the followers (the new people were still doing some not-so-good things, like backbiting). Most of my early childhood memories are Baha’i-related. When I was in Nairobi and I was given a tan-colored cloth doll while black kids got white and blond dolls and we learned about the unity of races, that had a huge impact on me. I was one-and-a-half.
@georockstar09 When I was a child and about 30of us grandkids gathered at Grandma’s house, she would read us her old letters from Lua. It bored most of us to sleep, better than bedtime stories. Grandma was never involved with the cause and did not go to any meetings, or even have any of the other Baha’is over for tea. There were no outward signs that she was a Baha’i. She had a picture of Abdu’l-Baha that she kept hidden in her underwear drawer. Her underwear drawer always smelled like Saffron. Many years later, a Persian friend cooked saffron rice and I nearly broke out in tears of happiness —— exclaiming out loud that it smelled wonderful! It smelled and tasted just like Grandma’s underwear!!!
Our Baha’i lessons were the constant stories from Lua’s letters about how perfect Abdu’l-Baha was as a person. Grandma always pronounced his name as, “Ab doool” and we never heard her refer to him as Abdu’l-Baha. Grandma would use his name to remind us to be better people. She would say things like: “Abdoool would not get into the pomegranate tree and get juice all over his dress and lie about it, saying that he did not eat the pomegranates!”, “Abdoool wouldn’t walk into my house with muddy shoes!”, “Abdoool always ate his green beans!” , “Abdoool wants all good children to say bedtime prayers.” I did not really know who this Abdoool was. One day, I asked and Grandma brought his picture out of her underwear drawer. It was a picture taken in the early 1900s in a very old frame. Of all the 30 grandkids that frequented Grandma’s house, I am the only one that became a Baha’i.
Grandma died at 108 years old in 1980. Until then, I had never seen another Baha’i. None! Then, after she died, my city seemed to have Baha’is everywhere. I went to work for Sullin’s Electronics in San Marcos, CA. Out of 300 workers, 295 of them were Baha’is. One day my boss called me into his office and I saw the picture of Abdu’l-Baha on his office wall. I had just said something stupid that I thought was going to get me fired. I looked at that picture and promised that picture, “Sir, if I don’t get fired I will become a Baha’i. I’ll do anything to keep this job.” Of course, I was not fired, but my boss gave me a prayer book and told me about the Baha’i Faith. Then he told me to read Thief In The Night by William Sears. I took the book home and leafed through it. I got a loose idea what it could be about.
A week later, I was invited to a special Fireside. There were only 3 seats empty in the room when we arrived. My boss sat in one and I got the other. Then the speaker arrived. He was an old man who walked with two canes, instead of a walker. The speaker sat in the empty chair beside me. He was introduced to me as William Sears. Upon hearing this, I began to chatter for 15 minutes about what I thought his book was about. He listened — amused — while I prattled on and on. When I stopped for a breath, he patted my knee and said, “My dear, READ the book!!!”
When I went home that night, I stayed up all night reading the book. I read the book all the next day, as well. When I returned to work on Monday, I was ready to sign a card and become a Baha’i. But the return of Jesus was still mysterious to me. I had been a Jew. I had to learn all about Jesus and the Christian faith in order to get why the return of Jesus was something to get excited about. Perhaps that is why I am an aloof Baha’i. As a Jew, I was aware of the first part of the Bible, but that second half of the Bible had never seeped into my brain. I had read the Bible beginning to end 3 times when I lived in Germany for 3 years in my early 20s. Yet, it did not sink in or mean anything to me. I am like an unspiritual dolt brain. The Katab-i-Aqdas means more to me than the Bible, or Torah and Talmud ever did. Baha’ullah’s teachings are the latest and translated into words and lessons I can understand clearly. He said what he meant and did not yammer on with stories or parables. Baha’u’llah goes straight to the point. I like that.
Sadly, when Grandma died in 1980, her children threw the tattered old letters from Lua in the fire stove and burnt them. That is so sad to me.
@ladybarbara That’s such a cool narrative! You had a pretty cool grandma. It’s interesting how meeting Him once affected her so much that she cherished a picture of Him for so long.
I can’t brag about meeting any famous Baha’is. I guess I was born too late.
I wonder if your grandmother set things in motion for you when she got into the next world. A similar thing happened in my community, when a really vivacious, staunch 90 year old passed away. Baha’is who had been in our town unbeknownst to us suddenly came into contact with us. I like to think it was his spirit working in the next world. It’s just a comforting thought.
Such a shame that we lost those letters!
I have tried to read the Bible once. But when it got to the point of the tabernacle and how to build one, it just became a bit of a yawner. It’s also hard to distinguish the parts where people really talked to God (only the Prophets, as far as I understood), and the parts where they thought they talked to God. Like when Israelis went to the temple, and God told them to go ahead and massacre a group of people. Many Christians, and probably Jews, too, who know that killing is bad, can’t understand why God would do such a thing – unless it really wasn’t God, because who knows who wrote those narratives exactly, or why. I equate most of the Bible to the Dawn Breakers, only not all of the Bible is about the good people, and I don’t know why some parts are in there. So I myself don’t know too much about either Judaism or Christianity, and there seems to be so much fantasy about Christ – both from Christians, and from TV shows mocking Him. I only really understood Who He was when I had a weird dream about Him a while ago. He was addressing some people who had been criticizing Him behind His back, and I saw Him as King of Kings – much the same way I see Baha’u’llah. In that dream, those people were silenced by their own shame when they saw Him.
Not that I’m the kind who dwells on weird dreams… But it was a REALLY weird dream! Who knows if it was just my imagination or not, but it sure straightened out my understanding.
I think the main thing isn’t so much that Baha’u’llah fulfills prophecies. The prophecies are really only there to get people to search for the new Manifestations of God when they come, so that they recognize Them and follow Them. Otherwise, I think the more important thing is that we listen to and follow Their teachings, especially the latest Ones, since they’re clearer and more understandable. So I don’t get the full significance about Baha’u’llah being the return of Christ either, but I think it’s OK.
@georockstar09 I think you have a good point about the Baha’is that pass into the Abha Kingdom working to guide people to the faith. When Grandma was still alive, she told me that I would be her only grandchild to become Baha’i. I laughed at that. I did not see how that could happen. I did not know of any other Baha’is. Grandma lived in Los Angeles. I lived in San Diego. I enrolled in the college UCSD and was surprised to see a small Baha’i Temple right on campus. Really!!! It is a domed building and everything! Then, I found the job at Sullins Electronics and was overwhelmed with Baha’is. Grandma must have been working on me from the other side. Then, I found out about the Baha’i Center in Los Angeles that is packed with thousands of Baha’is and it was only 20 minutes away from where Grandma lived. Grandma kept her religion to herself —– when she could have been a member among thousands.
I am happy to see that the Bible did not impress you. I felt the same way about it. God before Jesus, the God in the first part of the Bible, was either a mean jerk, or the people that said God talked to them were making up things to justify killing others. I think there is much truth in what you say. I thought I was weird to not be so impressed by the Bible stories. The last time I read through it, I substituted Baha’u’llah for Glory of God —- because Baha’u’llah means Glory of God —- and many parts became clearer.
@ladybarbara That’s so cool. And so strange! Well, who knows why she didn’t join the Baha’i community where she was living. We each have our spiritual journey, and perhaps there was a strange wisdom to it that we might not know about.
I think you are on point about the Old Testament. Some parts used “God telling them what to do” as justification for killing or taking over a part of the land for themselves (and killing everyone who stood in their way).
not trying to be an asshole, but could you explain our question(s) to me like I was 5 years old? I just don’t understand. thanks
‘What aspect of your humanity are you denying? Is it healthy to deny parts of self?’
I would posit that there are more than what you listed there.
Sexuality is a largely physical thing, and i agree with @griz who said that sexual expression is not the end all, be all for physical expression. There’s more to sensuality than genitalia.
Spirituality is a mental and emotional thing, but there’s more to it than that. Oftentimes with spirituality, there’s a social aspect to it.
There’s also the social aspect of our lives, but there are a LOT of ways we relate to one another. We relate as sons and daughters, as mothers and fathers, as brothers and sisters, as cousins, as employees and employers, as friends and as enemies, as strangers we pass on the road, and as members of an organization. There’s likely others I’m missing in this list.
i shy away from intimate contact because it is easier on my psyche :D but i dont think its entirely healthy either. we still deserve to be nurtured
If I were human, I could answer this question…
I lump in sexuality with other body functions – digestion, excretion, respiration, etc. You want cute babies? Only one way to do that. We don’t demonize the other body functions; we get cranky, distracted, and mean to others when we don’t do it, so why demonize sexuality.
More like, take care of your body however you need to, so that you can focus on the spiritual. When you are filthy, you get itchy. If you are itchy, you can’t concentrate while praying. So you take a bath and groom yourself, and then you can pray better.
You are not denying your material existence when you decide to be spiritual. It’s like a house. When you add a second level to it, you are not eliminating the first. But you CAN be material yet not spiritual, if we deny our spiritual aspect.
I deny my social aspect. I have had very negative interactions within my family, and I don’t want a repetition of that, so I completely shut people out of my personal life. I’m mostly happy, but at times I need other people’s help, and that’s when things get tough for me.
@georockstar09 as far as what you say about spirituality, and taking care of the human side first, that all makes sense. As to your social intelligence, do you ever think about creating safe circles? who, if anyone in your life is considered a safe person? what is a safe person to you? If you don’t have any safe people in your life, why not? Those would be the ones you could count on when you need help.
@Scarlett I have a few friends in my religious community that I rely on for help when situations get dire. My philosophy is that with any person, if you get too close to them and too comfortable around them and rub them the wrong way, they lash out. Honestly, I don’t think any human is completely safe. I’ve been rendered extra-sensitive from my childhood history, and so much as an angry look would kind of break me. So I like to live in happy solitude away from humans and their drams ^.^