If under any other circumstances…

an idea would be seen as criminal, why do religions get away with it?

If you were to go around saying you heard President Lincoln, Osama Bin Laden, or Nero or literally any other historical figure speaking to you telling you what to do, how to think, how to feel you would be found to be a nut job, and if you tried to convince others (and actually succeeded) you would be branded as a dangerous criminal and thrown in jail… yet the EXACT SAME claim of hearing god/ Jesus and indoctrinating children into the idea, no one bats an eye? Why?

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Responses

  1. I don’t think you would be, “branded as a dangerous criminal and thrown in jail” for those things. You’d probably get a cable show.

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    1. @luftballooneyegouge what about thinking you heard Santa Claus, Frodo (Lord of the Rings), Victor Newman (Young and the Restless), or Big Bird (Sesame Street)? How about Link (the silent protagonist from the Zelda Series), Mario (from the Super Mario Bros who typically only says “woo-hoo”), etc?

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    1. @Jear77 eeesh!

      This country was built on a massacre, as was British monarchy, as were all the others to some extent. The church gets some kind of social-grandfather-clause-pass by many, because the massacres were so common.
      Hypocrisy, you’ll have that with absolutists, but probably with us all, somewhere over our rainbows.

      Tax-evasion ain’t easy……

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      1. @Jear77 Just at the most basic math level, adding variables will change most outcomes depending on the variable.

        Family loss in war is probably the worst in Civil Wars when they’re killed by friends and/or family.

        One problem with Biblical history is that it focuses on the God to the exclusion of other data, so the Hebrews probably had other reasons to kill-’em-all like just plain old acquisition of resources &/or living-space, & not just God stuff, not that this is any kind of justification.

        I think there’s a difference of time too, where finding silver-linings to a massacre that happened thousands of years ago might not really be an advocation as much as the choice one might make, being magically whisked to the battlefield before the slaughter & given a magical choice.

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      2. @luftballooneyegouge
        Less vague = Western Society.

        Of which the US is essentially the present exemplar.

        But not for long if people keep hacking at it from within, in fits of total ignorance as to its history beyond just it’s inception as a nation.

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      3. @griz
        Are you on psych-meds?(rhetorical question)

        You might want to look at Nazi Germany’s response to 20s-30s German feminism, while keeping in mind the parade of German nationals living in the U.S. saying the current environment reminds them of 30s Germany. The Nazi response dovetails nicely with your reactionary push to keep shit 20th century.

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      4. @luftballooneyegouge
        Actually the genesis of both Nazi Germany and Marxist Russia are part of curriculum I’m studying.

        It’s less trying to “keep shit 20th Century” as being mindful to the numerous examples of socialistic failure that peppered that Century. The absolute head-scratcher are the number of people who something “feel” that if they had been Stalin or Hitler (or Mao or Pol Pot), they could have made it work.

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      5. @griz
        I would suggest you also pay attention to the responses to German Democratic-socialism, which was a peoples’ first attempt at socialism.

        Show me any human endeavor that pops out perfect on its first run if you can.

        Being that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were insane and instituted insanity, it’s a given if they were replaced, by wand wave majik, it’d probably be better under a sane individ.

        We should be looking to how the harmfully-insane get into power and why they stay there once the majority sees them for what they are. Many despots spend half their lives in power, and many die from old age.

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      6. @griz
        Your inability to follow this simple thread is a symptom of your tunnel-vision/compartmentalization.

        It’s just an addition to the question I asked right above it.

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  2. Perhaps a more interesting question in relationship with the philosophy you’ve adopted of late:
    If nobody matters and nothing matters and nothing will make any difference in a thousand a hundred or even ten years . . . Why get your undies in a bunch over what you think others may be getting away with?

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    1. @griz things matter in the here and now. Ultimately, no, given the scope of eternity of nothingness. But we don’t live in eternity. We live moment by moment. Even if there was no possible concept of any god(s); if we could not fathom the next instant (let alone eternity), the here and now would still matter.

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      1. @Jear77
        So things do matter.
        They have meaning.
        They have value.
        And we determine this . . . well how exactly?

        But that aside, it would seem evident then, that some things have more “matter” to them: more meaning.

        Better.
        Worse.

        And both of these things exist not just in this moment, but reaching forth into . . . what exactly? The next moment? Tomorrow? Next week? Next year? Next decade?
        Could the choices made in this moment affect the next generation? The next century?

        I know this isn’t the kind of “eternity” you were thinking of. And perhaps I’m also thinking of a different kind of eternity. There’s zero proof for or against it empirically.

        But if a “worse” decision today (like refusing to take full responsibility for ourselves in this moment) can affect so far into the future, who exactly can say what “eternity” looks like/will play out like?

        We just focus on making this moment the best. And refusing to take responsibility for ourselves from this moment forward, is NOT the best way of approaching this moment.

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      2. @griz the moment we die, nothing. The end. Our death, our life means nothing to anyone except to ourselves and for a little while, those closest to us. And after a few months, maybe a few years, to those too won’t be able to matter because we all have our own lives to live, and can’t be held back by our past. The reason we care is because such things give context to our lives. Take the exact same person, put them elsewhere, to another time, and the context changes. If you were born to a tribe in Africa or aboriginal Australia a millenia ago you would be a different person.

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      3. @Jear77
        Who’s fault is it if we’ve mucked about in life with constructs of arrogance lies and resentment . . . and produced nothing of lasting significance?

        Some people from the past have made lasting and valuable contributions.

        We stand daily upon “the bones” of their wise sacrifices to the future, and whine that despite all the advantages they have gifted us, we can make no contributions of lasting significance.

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      4. @Jear77
        That is perhaps the best justification for seeking out that-which-does-not-corrupt-and-fade.

        Otherwise one is just a pouting emoting basket-case waiting for the decay in their body to match that in their spirit.

        And to insist that such a thing does not, cannot exist, is both a denial of past Evolution and an easy excuse to cease present/future Evolving.

        Come on Jear! If you’re going to worship Science, you should know this!

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      5. @griz even your concept of god/ life/ all that is will fade. How? The moment man is destroyed by the sun, the earth evaporated by the sun’s corona, those thoughts will be no more!

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    2. @griz I have been away, but where do you jump to the conclusion that Jear has ever said that nobody matters, nothing matters, & nothing will make a difference?

      Is this just some prejudiced application to those not following your choice of philosophy?

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      1. @Jear77
        Do you really think nothing matters in the long run? I’m more in the camp that everything matters, we just don’t have the faculties to tell how a good deed, and especially the one’s from our point of view, that ended as no-good-deed-goes-unpunished, ,.. how our good deeds or sacrifices actually do make a difference.

        It’s alll connected maaaaan!
        https://youtu.be/MT1GmcdXaYo

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      2. @luftballooneyegouge it’s all a matter of time perspective. One day tbe sun will go supernova and the earth will be no more. Man won’t have the technology to escape… and even if it does, unless we have found a suitable place to go… it’s useless; we’d be simply delaying the inevitable.

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      3. @Jear77
        There hasn’t been a supposed supernova seen since the 1604-05 & that was only viewed with naked-eyes, & that was only seen as a new star in the sky.

        There might not even be such things as supernovae.

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      4. @Jear77
        That’s what we think from the pin-hole of data that has only recently begun to be accurately collected. It could be perpetual motion….

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      5. @Jear77
        I think instead of a SuperNova, Kepler saw the first Deathstar being blown up, but didn’t see the other ones because of of obstructions like Endor & just the fact that they’ll never be as cool as the first.

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      6. @immortal_pirate would we be experiencing it? Hint: by the time the sun goes supernova, the sun would have become a red giant. The earth will be totally destroyed, evaporated. That’s the true potential of a star… even as it dies. Man will be no more. And the explosion of such a cosmic force wouldn’t be instantaneous.

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      7. @Jear77
        That’s interesting.
        Why do you think one would choose a fragmented existence rather than a integrated one?

        I’ve met several people in my travels that I’d previously only known online. They often comment that I am “the same person”.

        Which again, is a head-scratcher. Why would one not be?

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      8. @griz you’d never know for a few reasons. 1) your interaction with me would be brief (where’s the bathroom, cafeteria, this [or that] piece of art)? 2) in order to find out anything about me, you’d have to get around to talking about more than just art / business and if i do, i risk my job. 3) in any other circumstance, if I’m out and about, I’m in a hurry, so such things would never come up. So it’s not that I’m not integrated, it’s just that I’m not going to get fired for stupidity, or waste my time or breath with strangers!

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