@Gina
There are trains of thought in our society that try to intimately relate suffering to evil. Ie, if something causes you to suffer or feel oppressed, some “evil” has been perpetrated against you.
There have been times that I suffered, but I have never suffered and thought it was caused by evil. Not being able to afford to hire help and barely able to afford roofing and rent a dumpster — I suffered through re-roofing my house in the hot sun in July. My husband was too sick to help me. He could only hold the ladder for me as I carried the roofing up to the roof. There was no evil to it, except for my cussing each time I hurt myself.
Once, in a huff, I left for California a day early and was detoured off of the Interstate 10 into snowy mountains of San Bernardino, and my car slid into a snowbank and I could not get out of it until morning. I spent the night in my car with a cell phone that was dead. But that was not evil. That was bad timing.
Evil — pure evil, is a serial killer that won’t stop. That is evil, but sooner or later the police force will fix his little red wagon and he ends up on death row. Does he suffer on Death Row??? No. He may live for 30 years with his own private cell, TV with cable channels, private showers, use of the library, and at least two good meals a day. They get to make friends in the exercise yard. It is a life that is tolerable. And death has only the pain of two IV needles and the rest of the execution is a peaceful death. Nothing evil happens to the evil-doer.
Not always. When you suffer because it’s something you want to do, because it’s a fundamental part of who you are, because you can’t imagine not doing it. It’s like the people who suffer for fitness. It’s like the alcoholic and drug addict. It’s like those who suffer want but know if they indulge, the doctors told them they’ll die. It’s like the suffering of christ.
Compare that to the person who gets a debilitating disease who suffers not because of something they want to do, but because of stupid genetics, the person who in a moment of lust suffers from AIDS (because it only takes ONCE to get it), the person who is born without a limb or, through no fault of their own, needs surgery to remove a limb.
@Jear77
Pathological cycles that we get trapped into should probably not be confused with things that “are just a part of us”. Fear alone keeps us from breaking out; and should we consider the splinter “just a part of us” because we fear the pain of taking it out??
The nature of existence is that it is “unfair” as cast by our self conscious ego. There are no guarantees, few effective shortcuts over the long term, and certainly no magical Genies to leverage things in your favor!
It’s interesting how the third story in Genesis is about the only two fundamental choices the self-conscious being can take when faced with a reality that doesn’t coddle it.
Able accepted the rules of the game and played within them to great positive effect.
Cain chose to look for exceptions, loopholes, and shortcuts. And when this failed to produce desired results, griped and pouted about how unfair manifest reality was for not catering to his desires on his terms.
(This is where you should check yourself in the mirror. Because what came next wasn’t nice)
@griz Just because it’s pathological doesn’t mean there’s not a genetic component to it. Mind you some things can be overridden, but not easily. But there’s a point where nothing can be done except let the person do what they want. Don’t support them, wash your hands of them and if they get better (which chances are likely they won’t) you knew it was coming when they go off the deep end.
@Jear77
The things truly worth doing in life are rarely easy.
What each person chooses to do remains their choice. Just as the consequences are their choice too. But if we are the ones with the pathological problem inherent in us it would seem exceedingly foolish to excuse making the sacrifices necessary to master it.
@Jear77
That’s not true! Creativity is responsible for every single solution in the history of the species.
Whereas problems are caused not just by creativity (misused) but by the lack of it. And by things like stubbornness stagnation greed envy jealousy gluttony tribalism ideologies short-sightedness. . . And the list goes on.
14 responses to “Is there a difference between suffering and evil?”
Aaaaaah, yeah. Maybe I don’t understand the question.
@Gina
There are trains of thought in our society that try to intimately relate suffering to evil. Ie, if something causes you to suffer or feel oppressed, some “evil” has been perpetrated against you.
There have been times that I suffered, but I have never suffered and thought it was caused by evil. Not being able to afford to hire help and barely able to afford roofing and rent a dumpster — I suffered through re-roofing my house in the hot sun in July. My husband was too sick to help me. He could only hold the ladder for me as I carried the roofing up to the roof. There was no evil to it, except for my cussing each time I hurt myself.
Once, in a huff, I left for California a day early and was detoured off of the Interstate 10 into snowy mountains of San Bernardino, and my car slid into a snowbank and I could not get out of it until morning. I spent the night in my car with a cell phone that was dead. But that was not evil. That was bad timing.
Evil — pure evil, is a serial killer that won’t stop. That is evil, but sooner or later the police force will fix his little red wagon and he ends up on death row. Does he suffer on Death Row??? No. He may live for 30 years with his own private cell, TV with cable channels, private showers, use of the library, and at least two good meals a day. They get to make friends in the exercise yard. It is a life that is tolerable. And death has only the pain of two IV needles and the rest of the execution is a peaceful death. Nothing evil happens to the evil-doer.
@ladybarbara
Unless evil somehow generates its own “reward”?
Within our sight, or beyond it.
(Our not seeing it cannot be equated with justice never being served. Only with vengeance not being served!)
Not always. When you suffer because it’s something you want to do, because it’s a fundamental part of who you are, because you can’t imagine not doing it. It’s like the people who suffer for fitness. It’s like the alcoholic and drug addict. It’s like those who suffer want but know if they indulge, the doctors told them they’ll die. It’s like the suffering of christ.
Compare that to the person who gets a debilitating disease who suffers not because of something they want to do, but because of stupid genetics, the person who in a moment of lust suffers from AIDS (because it only takes ONCE to get it), the person who is born without a limb or, through no fault of their own, needs surgery to remove a limb.
@Jear77
Pathological cycles that we get trapped into should probably not be confused with things that “are just a part of us”. Fear alone keeps us from breaking out; and should we consider the splinter “just a part of us” because we fear the pain of taking it out??
The nature of existence is that it is “unfair” as cast by our self conscious ego. There are no guarantees, few effective shortcuts over the long term, and certainly no magical Genies to leverage things in your favor!
It’s interesting how the third story in Genesis is about the only two fundamental choices the self-conscious being can take when faced with a reality that doesn’t coddle it.
Able accepted the rules of the game and played within them to great positive effect.
Cain chose to look for exceptions, loopholes, and shortcuts. And when this failed to produce desired results, griped and pouted about how unfair manifest reality was for not catering to his desires on his terms.
(This is where you should check yourself in the mirror. Because what came next wasn’t nice)
@griz Just because it’s pathological doesn’t mean there’s not a genetic component to it. Mind you some things can be overridden, but not easily. But there’s a point where nothing can be done except let the person do what they want. Don’t support them, wash your hands of them and if they get better (which chances are likely they won’t) you knew it was coming when they go off the deep end.
@Jear77
The things truly worth doing in life are rarely easy.
What each person chooses to do remains their choice. Just as the consequences are their choice too. But if we are the ones with the pathological problem inherent in us it would seem exceedingly foolish to excuse making the sacrifices necessary to master it.
(Referencing back to the story of Cain and Abel)
@griz better to remove negativity than let it spread even accidentally to you.
@Jear77
If the “negativity” is just the normal challenge and growth process of life, and “removing it” is just running away . . . then no.
It’s most certainly not better.
@griz more like getting rid of by throwing anything or anyone who gives you problems to the curb.
@Jear77
Such a person never learns from challenges; and may not want to.
Why do you think a person might not want to learn from the challenges put before them? Especially if they have a creative personality.
@griz i’ve learned that creativity produces more problems than solutions
@Jear77
That’s not true! Creativity is responsible for every single solution in the history of the species.
Whereas problems are caused not just by creativity (misused) but by the lack of it. And by things like stubbornness stagnation greed envy jealousy gluttony tribalism ideologies short-sightedness. . . And the list goes on.
Creativity is most assuredly not the problem!