Why does almost everything in life need to be an illusion? What would life be like without them?
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Is there anything in life that isn’t (to some degree) smoke and mirrors
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Responses
No illusions in my life. What is — is.
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are you sure? (I’m being serious here)
Aren’t social niceties smoke and mirrors vs. saying what you feel at the time smoke and mirrors?
Isn’t wearing clothing (esp. in a climate where they really aren’t necessary for survival) smoke and mirrors?
Even the putting cologne and perfume on is an act of smoke and mirrors, to hide the fact that we’re decaying bags of meat, isn’t it?
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Social niceties? This is Arizona where everyone is just as you see them. We say what we feel. Long gone is my Zig Zigler response to “How you doing?” where I answer, “GREAT!!!”. I usually say it like it is, nowadays. “Fair-to-middlin and how about you?”
Wearing clothing protects the neighbors from seeing my body. Wearing clothing in Arizona keeps me from getting sunburn within 10 minutes of exposure. It keeps the cats from looking up to see a horrendous sight when I bend over to fill the cat food dishes.
I don’t wear cologne or perfume because it attracts mosquitoes and bees out here in the desert.
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Death isn’t an illusion.
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It is perhaps one of the biggest.
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According to Christian theology, yes. Unfortunately, we have no proof. And for the most part, I doubt if anyone would truly want the truth of that if it were presented to them, because it’d be a number of truths rolled into one
1) death is literally nothing to fear if one has faith (but in this case it would be proof). Therefore more people would hasten their own demise in order to get to the hereafter, because suicide is not strictly forbidden as a separate command.
2) there is an afterlife and we will be held accountable for our actions
3) If you think that people ask inappropriate things of god, who supposedly ARE Christians, just wait until the people who DON’T have god in their life have proof, the crazy things they’d ask… believing it to be so and acting as if it’s theirs!
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As I’ve shared many times before, the “proof” is “the proof of relationship”.
Nobody can “prove” a relationship FOR you. Not the joys, the trials or even the actuality of it. You have to do it yourself. You tried relationship with a religion and it didn’t work for you any more than it did for the Pharisees of Jesus’ age. And your finding only what the Pharisees found, is in no way “proof” that there is nothing to be found beyond this process (As in, have we learned nothing in 2000 years? We’re still playing religion the EXACT same way, trying to earn reward and dodge penalty!) Oh, and true fellowship with Life by it’s nature, precludes suicide; and not out of fear of penalty. That’s still religious thinking hinging off our flesh. You went looking for something your ego could control; and this by it’s nature substitutes a god of your own flesh for the One True God. It’s no wonder you found only Human folly.
Death is nothing to fear if one has a vibrant healthy relationship/fellowship with Life. What we mainly fear, is the anticipated death of ego. Deal with that, and physical death is just a part of physical life. And we might as well effectively deal with it, because our carping or going all depressive about it isn’t going to change it!
“Growing up” is ALL ABOUT accepting accountability for our actions! Agree or disagree? So we’re left with this fear of “growing up” into fully-realized form.
And part of that fuller realization, is the acceptance that our feelings don’t define reality. In fact, they most often lead us either directly or indirectly towards death if we give them total free reign.
“Asking inappropriate things” . . . one cannot ask “Life” to do the work of “death” and expect it to be so. How can we know the difference?
Refer to my first statement about relationship/fellowship. It remains the best — and perhaps the ONLY way — to a fuller understanding of things that are “beyond self” and not essentially selfish.
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But a relationship with what? It’s strange… very small children have imaginary friends. They’re encouraged to get rid of them. Yet, strangely enough, when it comes to god it seems that adults have the *exact SAME* delusion… and yet NO ONE says “this isn’t sane!” My pastor admits when he’s scared he reaches up and grabs the air as if he’s holding someone’s hand. This isn’t… normal for an adult (especially) male to do this. A normal person would grit their teeth and do what needs to be done or choose to to do it, and not need the “security blanket.”
Yet at day’s end the whole idea of a relationship with a god, more specifically the god of the bible, hinges on the idea of Pascal’s wager, which has a refutations aplenty. The first couple that came up in a google search:
http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/pascal.htm
http://www.alternet.org/story/149920/why_it%27s_not_a_%27safe_bet%27_to_believe_in_god
Once again, we’ve had this discussion before. If it’s nothing to fear, and to embrace it is to get much greater rewards-, the goal should be to embrace it fully by killing ourselves to progress to the next stage of existence. And since Christianity does not and can not teach that, because it would be unhealthy and unwise to do so.
How is death an illusion? It is a certain reality.
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Something is an illusion if it’s common perception and actuality do not match.
We have a lot of common perceptions about both physical life and physical death. But little concept of their actuality. Mistaken perceptions of Life can keep us from living it to the fullest. And mistaken perceptions about death? Who can say?
But we do seem to live in a realm of mostly illusion. Even solid matter is an illusion. ( atomically it’s mostly holes and spaces.)
We know that most of what we have is unproven (or dismissive) perception of all that it entails.
A.K.A. illusion.
It is the cause of much background stress.
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So, what is the difference between “perception” and “illusion?” Every individual has their own “perception and thus illusion” of death. But reality dictiates that we are all going to die. So, would it be “truthful” to say that we develope our own illusions/reality about death so that we can keep on living?
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Perhaps perception is just the “first act”.
The second act is acting ( or not acting) on that perception.
And finally if we have correctly perceived the greater reality then we actively live in the greater reality. ( a reality that far out lives our life span)
But if we have not correctly perceived we are nothing but an illusion that cannot be sustained.
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The great reality is that we are going to die. But we don’t know when or how. Perhaps that is where illusion comes into play. Does illusion make reality easier to endure?
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It’s been said humans only tap 10% of their potential.
I have a hard time calling the possibilities of other 90%, just illusion!
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The 10% thing is an oft repeated scientific myth. We use 100%… but it depends when and how!
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Calling it a myth is based on the assumption that 90% must remain entirely fallow. On computer Imaging all of the brain lights up from time to time, showing that it is doing something. Even if just transmitting impulses from one active area to another.
But the same Imaging shows that we tend to use just the same small sections of our brains over and over. Jear! Do you REALLY AND TRULY believe you have maxed out your full and absolute potential???
So again we can cherry-pick the parts of anything that we want to have it say almost anything that we want. The question then becomes why do we want it to say that? And this almost always comes down to just feelings; and too often to just ones like fear, anger, frustration, anger, laziness.
We want to feel like we cannot do any more, or like we are doing all that we possibly can. But we don’t even have to scan the brain to know that this is a recurring foible in the human organism. We have so much potential that we so rarely live up to. And again because of feelings like fear.
They own us as Lord and Master. And they even have ass trying to defend ridiculous suppositions like we have reached the maximum of our potential.
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You aren’t getting the point. Some parts of the brain are used to maintain life. Repurposing them would be extremely bad. Consider needing to consciously make upur heart beat, breathe, or cause yourself to blink.
There are also systems that only work when we are asleep. What happens when those s are used for another purpose? Or the systems that allow the user to understand language, what happens if those are changed. There is a domino effect for each of those changes.
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And you don’t get the point that you’re just arguing semantics out of a need to disprove something.
Your feelings want (need?) to arrive at a certain conclusion so strongly that your mind sets about justifying it regardless of cost.
So let’s go back to the question of why you may feel you have totally maxed out all of your potential and have nothing left. Understanding this will help you greatly.
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The cost I’ve, and others around me have paid in an attempt to do god’s will has always exceed the promise of the good things that are to come – both personally and for those I love, my friends, and am associated with.
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” . . an attempt to do God’s will”.
Don’t you mean to do the will of the dead words on paper? Remember Paul’s assertion that the letter of the Law kills but the Spirit brings life.
(Consider carefully what I offered about that church just being a book-worship religion devoid of Spirit)
Christ alone made fellowship with the Spirit possible. But you are laughing at Christ in trying to return to Old Testament times and ” religious feats of fhe flesh” as your recipe for leveraging divine favor from God.
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And true forgiveness? Is that a work of the flesh or of the spirit?
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How has your flesh proven at it?
Mine could never get the hang of it.
And even with spiritual assist “the biggies” can still try to un-forgiven themselves just for long enough for a trespass from the past to reach out and give you another poke.
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In the absence of Illusion there is only Truth left.
The lead up to the alleged original sin, began with illusion.
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You forget that we can’t know the truth in this iteration. For if we do, it would kill us in its pure, unblemished form; that means everything has shades of illusion to it.
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Look to a child.
They cannot fully know the adult reality and can even be damaged if it is thrust upon them too soon. They follow a path “into it”.
The Truth remains pure, eternal. And by God’s decree we can follow a path into it that mimics a physical child’s journey into fully-realized adulthood. There are even similarities in “the criteria” upon the child for a successful completion of the journey.
Our not being able to see/fathom the entire realm of the Pure . . . is no excuse to give up and presume that everything is illusion. No more than a child’s not being able to fathom the entirety of adulthood is excuse to sit down and pout because it’s not easy and everything’s not handed to them.
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Yet even the more innocent of children sin. Did or did not god say to see him in all his glory is to die? The purest, more unadulterated truth would be in the personage of god. Thus, if the most pure would die from access to that truth, what possibility do the rest of us have to be able to access it. Therefore, anything less than that direct access to the purity of truth that is god is smoke and mirrors. I would even state that the most pure relationship would be because it’s always tainted by sin and our own mortality.
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Consider the quote “Thy kingdom come Thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven”. ( a progression we commit to being a part of)
Now consider the process of a child becoming an adult. An instant full grasp of it would likely damage them. But if they don’t progressively move towards it they will be just as damaged later in life.
Finally consider the parable of the Prodigal Son. He was still tainted (filthy) under that robe the father put on him. But if he accepted the grace, the mercy and the forgiveness/fellowship extended him he would grow worthy of it over time.
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It’s like what I was telling LadyBarbra, covering one’s self (in this case one’s righteousness or lack thereof) in something else (be it clothes of righteousness in the case of salvation or clothes and perfume/ cologne in the case of the physical body) does nothing to the core of the issue. According to the bible the sins are removed, yes, but the sinful nature remains. It’s kinda like how modern medicine works: they expect you to take the medicine for the rest of your life — the medicine only covers the symptoms, but doesn’t erase, doesn’t cure the condition. Now if the sinful nature were to be able to removed that’d be a different story entirely. But really we are told that we need to beg for forgiveness as a daily task for things we know we did wrong and those things that we don’t know we did wrong. The message at day’s end is “you can do nothing right.” I have enough problems without that message being constantly at the forefront of my mind. Sorry, not going to go there!
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You come from a strange place if you feel you have to continually beg for a gift freely offered!
AGAIN to the parable of the Prodigal Son. He TRIED to beg and bargain. Would the father have any part of it? You’ve either absorbed a LOT of anti-Christ teachings — or in your frustration are choosing just to focus on the “bad news” of the Old Covenant (totally fulfilled by Christ) and pretending everything Christ did was in vain.
And AGAIN to the temporal example of a physical child. What loving parent CONSTANTLY tries to saddle them with their “adult inadequacies” totally overlooking that they are still children and in process??
It’s perhaps time you OWN which of the two options above now motivate your anger and frustration. Was the teaching bad (perhaps bordering on cultish so completely have you surrendered yourself to it)?
Or are you just choosing to deny everything Jesus Christ did on your behalf and trying to wring out some kind of ‘earned salvation’ from a “covenant of death written on stone” that Jesus already totally fulfilled?
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So why the need for the fellowship, confession of sins, of Communion? That seems an odd (and if you ask me, needless) part of the stipulation of the gift’s acceptance. If the gift were so free, the idea would be to accept it, and never have to deal with the idea ever again! Ok, it’s accepted. Now let me live my life, I’ll see you in the life as I see fit, if my sins are so forgiven. But the issue is that they are not if one needs to ever go back to fellowship, to confess, to take communion, to a people who are just as messed up as you are…
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It’s actually rather ingenious in a loving way. (Again, many religions thrive off of trying to make it a fearful, sniveling process)
In the fellowship we sharpen each other, “as iron sharpens iron” (Pro 27:17). Also the Spiritual gifts while effective out in the world, reach their highest potential in a group at various points on the same path. We’re not doing it to earn or prove anything. It’s just fun and educational to be around people who have shared experience!
Sinful processes spiritually separate us from the Holy Spirit’s power and guidance. Confessing our sins to God is the learning process by which we first start to recognize us cutting ourselves off from the power that enables us to be spiritually pleasing in God’s sight.
It’s akin to a child suddenly connecting a parental rule or edict, with the pragmatic reason for it in the first place. They are no longer trapped in a cycle of not understanding the harm/danger/detriment of an action and obeying just out of fear. Do you constantly fear you will be punished if you don’t look both ways before crossing the street . . . or have you internalized the lesson and the “substitutionary punishment” is in the past? But forget the lesson, and a less-than-loving bumper will deliver “natural consequence”.(Confession to a priest is not Scriptural, but a religious add-on intended to better control the masses through fear of someone knowing all their dirty secrets!)
And communion is simply a symbol — a “remembrance” of what made fellowship and process with God’s Spirit living in us . . .possible (Luke 22:19 record Christ saying that this is ALL communion is about). There’s nothing magical or mystical about the wafers and wine. It just gets shit and pissed out shorty after. The only “host” God desires to inhabit, is our life.
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Smoke and mirrors, a term well known to be originally from magic shows. Smoke, often has been a good symbol for “hiding things”.
Mirrors, on the other hand, ‘reveal things’, one could say.
With commercial sales, just about everything is ‘smoke and mirrors’.
Some sell themselves, but these tend to be people who want publicity for some weird reason.
D list actors. Multi-level marketing confidence people. News anchors.
Are there, secrets, in people? Is everything out there, as you have known it? Or, maybe ‘as you have known it and seen it on tv’?
I definitely see that a lot.
I watched this excellent show about the former Russian spy, Anna Chapman. It was one of my favorite crime reenactment shows. “Who the Bleep Did I Date?” High quality re-enactments.
And includes testimony from key people through it.
Anyway, she was this guy’s ‘who the bleep did I date’, so that is told. How he could understand how she mistook him for a valid target of Russian espionage, because he no longer did any sensitive work.
One scene, though, she is sitting there, gets a call, and then has a long conversation with her cover company’s web guy, on particulars of how it is set up.
And, it shows him, just sitting there, in the apartment, waiting (while he narrates the call details he could recall).
Her whole company, fake. That whole phone conversation, fake. Or real, but hidden in some truly remarkable conversational code.
He just saw her as an attractive, busy real estate professional woman. She was really a deep undercover Russian spy. Most countries do not even perform this. The US does not have such capabilities, nor does most European ones.
Directorate S, an ‘illegal’. Long term, deep cover.
That?
She was all smoke and mirrors.
That was all smoke and mirrors.
But, is she the norm? No. Then very little outside of commercial marketing probably relies on magic tricks to distort their identity in a positive way to people.
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@jear77 Again I ask you, Who are you to shake your fist at God and ask “Why me”???
and as far as suicide…what part of “Thou shalt not kill” do you not understand?
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@immirtal_pirate it depends on your translation. Some translations say “kill” others say “murder.” Logically, you can’t MURDER yourself, it’s an oxymoron. Also, the act of eating ANYTHING is 95% of the time KILLING, so… what are you going to do, starve?
In regards to why me, there’s a train of thought that goes something like this: If this is what it is to exist, it’s better not to have existed (i.e. never having been) at all! And I FIRMLY agree with that sentiment. If it was THAT important for god to have believers, he shouldn’t have made disobedience, the ability to give up faith an option. Since I’m still alive and kicking (as are MANY others who have given up their faith). I guess in the grand scheme of things it’s less than nothing to god, therefore it’s less than nothing to me.
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@Jear77, Then maybe your birth certificate should be an apology letter from a condom company…
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@immortal_pirate there are many things going on with not only my own personal history, but my entire family’s. 5 years before I was conceived, I had a sister. She had several health problems, birth defects really, that a modern day surgery could have fixed. Her death messed my brother up. He could have been a vastly different person had that not happened. Then I came along and was messed up by my brother’s actions towards me. So DO NOT talk about things you have no idea what you’re talking about. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!!!
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Reaction to the death of a child can weigh heavily on the children born afterwards. I was having coffee klatching with a neighbor as I held my newborn in my arms. Our two year old children were playing in the next room with one of those bouncy hobby horses on springs. We could hear them laughing, talking, then crying in the next room and we agreed to let them work out their own squabbles. It got quiet in there, so we decided to look in on them. To our horror, we found that her daughter had fallen from the hobby horse with the reins wrapped around her neck. She choked and died. My son was petting her head waiting for her to wake up, but she was beyond resuscitation —– she was GONE!!!
Her death was full of grief for her parents and all of their friends. I became a parent who would not allow my children to play unsupervised and insisted on looming over them, not letting them out of my sight. I was overprotective. I was overbearing. It had an effect on my two sons. They began to find ways of getting out of my sight, away from my guidance, and away from me. It had a bad influence on our relationship.
One of my sons ran away from home as a teenager —– he went to China to get on the other side of the Pacific Ocean, so that he could grow into an adult without my influence. Nowadays, they are both in their 50s and they hardly ever communicate. One doesn’t communicate at all. The oldest only communicates before his birthday and right before Christmas —— the gift giving occasions.
The death of a child can change the dynamic of the parenting. The result is not wanting to give the child enough room to grow into an independent, self sufficient adult. It can make children distance themselves —- or more obedient and sympathetic children to stay closer in attempts to heal the wounds that cannot be healed. Yours looks like the latter and the parents want to keep the family together. My own experience resulted in a family living in distance from one another.
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My brother was 5 years old when she died. And you’re right, it did affect them. My dad had a bottle of alcohol. My mom called him up and stopped him from drinking. But in order to deal with the grief, and because he needed to be able to support his family, he worked many hours, which caused my brother to wonder where he was all the time.
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I can see how your Mom would want to keep the family together. Your brother picked up on your Dad’s absence and his working harder and he reflects that in his own life. Perhaps you are more like your mother, nurturing and close — because it pleases your Mom to have you close. There is not much wrong with that, but you will nurture them in their old age and you will be left to pick up the pieces after their deaths. Perhaps you will be so skilled at taking care of the house that you will be able to pick up all the pieces and put them together for your own life. I hope, by then, you will have disability payments, or Social Security that will help fund the years when you are alone to make the best of your world.
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There is a thin line between “illusions” and “delusions.” Both can be defined as coping mechanisms on an individual level. Life would be brutal without the illusions we create to preserve our own reality.
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