There are several ways to know
1. Scientific research/ experimentation
2. Personal experience
3. From others/ from stories
4. What we think/feel (subjectivity)
@Jear77 I would Argue that personal experience is simply that, and not the same thing as knowledge. I would argue that scientific ideas are often debunked. I would argue peoples stories are simply their stories, we can’t know the validity of it. what we think and feel? is that knowledge? I think we can know nothing outside of the fact that awareness exists.
@Scarlett knowledge of yourself helps you know what works for you. Science is in the business of self correction, so it makes little difference if it’s completely wrong today, as long as it gets closer with each iteration. Viewpoint / stories are an important thing, as they help with cohesion of self and identification with the group/ society at large.
Wow. I seriously posted my question above before reading what was on the group. It’s amazing that we were both thinking of practically the same thing at the same time.
I think @Weenis hit the nail right on the head with the label “epistemology”
@jear77 points out some very good processes for doing it.
But then there are people like Nietzsche and Nostradamus who just knew things, startlingly accurate, without any evident epistemology. (Without any possible epistemology!)
Carl Jung talks about a collective unconsciousness spanning time. Various Aboriginal cultures talk about knowledge and wisdom existing beyond the individual, as something spiritual that comes supernaturally to the worthy seeker.
I think these are things worth considering. As a species we can become very arrogant and conceited in our presumed absolute ownership of knowledge and wisdom.
But this is essentially asserting that All-That-Is. . . can be no greater than us.
Which is really rather sad in SO many ways!
@griz you realize nostradamus’ prophecies are mainly a matter of interpretation. If you want someone who is a better prophet as far as practical invention goes, look to da Vinchi
@Jear77
That’s a good observation. Thanks for sharing it.
The idea is that there are people who have believed things and asserted them without any way to perform an epistemological analysis on them . . . that turned out to be entirely correct.
@griz yes, I think what you are saying is something similar to how musicians claim someone stole their song. They heard the melody somewhere in time, but often didn’t realize it had been done before.
@Scarlett this guy did the math for musical notes on a piano. Although it is not quite a tune, you get the idea of how many actual meldoies there can be in existence.
Therefore, it is possible for more than one person to hear a Melody and create it, but we can’t really know for sure if they’ve heard it or a similar Melody before.
14 responses to “Knowledge”
This is a branch of philosophy called “epistemology”. It has to do with what we know, and how we can know what we know.
There are several ways to know
1. Scientific research/ experimentation
2. Personal experience
3. From others/ from stories
4. What we think/feel (subjectivity)
@Jear77 I would Argue that personal experience is simply that, and not the same thing as knowledge. I would argue that scientific ideas are often debunked. I would argue peoples stories are simply their stories, we can’t know the validity of it. what we think and feel? is that knowledge? I think we can know nothing outside of the fact that awareness exists.
@Scarlett knowledge of yourself helps you know what works for you. Science is in the business of self correction, so it makes little difference if it’s completely wrong today, as long as it gets closer with each iteration. Viewpoint / stories are an important thing, as they help with cohesion of self and identification with the group/ society at large.
Wow. I seriously posted my question above before reading what was on the group. It’s amazing that we were both thinking of practically the same thing at the same time.
I think @Weenis hit the nail right on the head with the label “epistemology”
@jear77 points out some very good processes for doing it.
But then there are people like Nietzsche and Nostradamus who just knew things, startlingly accurate, without any evident epistemology. (Without any possible epistemology!)
Carl Jung talks about a collective unconsciousness spanning time. Various Aboriginal cultures talk about knowledge and wisdom existing beyond the individual, as something spiritual that comes supernaturally to the worthy seeker.
I think these are things worth considering. As a species we can become very arrogant and conceited in our presumed absolute ownership of knowledge and wisdom.
But this is essentially asserting that All-That-Is. . . can be no greater than us.
Which is really rather sad in SO many ways!
@griz you realize nostradamus’ prophecies are mainly a matter of interpretation. If you want someone who is a better prophet as far as practical invention goes, look to da Vinchi
@Jear77
That’s a good observation. Thanks for sharing it.
The idea is that there are people who have believed things and asserted them without any way to perform an epistemological analysis on them . . . that turned out to be entirely correct.
@griz yes, I think what you are saying is something similar to how musicians claim someone stole their song. They heard the melody somewhere in time, but often didn’t realize it had been done before.
@Scarlett
It begs the question of just how original original is!
Is it an assemblage of, or just a different take on a “known”?
Is it a previous “known” that has been forgotten and is just arising from the collective consciousness?
Or something 100% new?
They are all creatively beautiful.
@Scarlett this guy did the math for musical notes on a piano. Although it is not quite a tune, you get the idea of how many actual meldoies there can be in existence.
Therefore, it is possible for more than one person to hear a Melody and create it, but we can’t really know for sure if they’ve heard it or a similar Melody before.
I know things that would give you nightmares…
@immortal_pirate oh, you personally know Cthulhu?
@Jear77 I give him nightmares too.
I grew up with a set of Grolier’s New Books of Knowledge with the look & feel of hand-tooled vellum with the blue windows & the golden trees.
https://img.etsystatic.com/il/f523ba/800241449/il_570xN.800241449_sahx.jpg?version=0