Sexuality

“Henry Rayhons, a respected nine-term Republican state senator in Iowa, was arrested and charged with sexual abuse in the third degree for engaging in sexual behaviors with his wife Donna Lou in a nursing home. Donna Lou, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease, could no longer recall her children’s names or remember how to feed herself. Just days before the sexual interaction for which her husband was charged, staff members had informed Mr. Rayhons that they did not believe his wife was cognitively able to consent to sex. Mr. Rayhons stated that his wife asked to engage in sexual behaviors, which he presumed to mean she consented. The staff’s assessment of Mrs. Rayhons’s ability to consent came at the request of her daughters from a previous marriage who had raised concerns over Mr. Rayhons’s inappropriate sexual interactions with their mother prior to his arrest. Soon after accusations were made, this daughter successfully petitioned for guardianship of her mother, and Mr. Rayhons was arrested and no longer allowed to visit his wife. Mr. Rayhons claimed that they did not engage in sexual intercourse, but would occasionally engage in sexual fondling, a claim that was confirmed by a medical examination. Mr. Rayhons’s felony charge could have landed him in prison for up to 10 years. However, he was eventually acquitted after his wife died. The case sparked national interest in a complex question with no clear-cut answers: Can individuals living with dementia consent to sex and intimacy? When do we lose our ability to experience sexuality, if at all?

30 responses to “Sexuality”

  1. griz says:

    Read Thomas Sowell’s book, The Quest For Cosmic Justice.

    A better question would be why this daughter would think it’s her job to police her parent’s sex life.

    That the elder woman remembers this is her husband, and she is the one asking for sexual petting means this does not belong in the courts.

    That someone so worried about victimization should set out to victimize those they should love, is reprehensible.

    Almost as much as a judge thinking this was their place to pass judgement in the proverbial bedroom of a legally married couple.

    As Sowell articulates so well, presumptuous visions of Cosmic Justice are entirely incompatible with Western principles of Common Law.

    We simply do not have sufficient omniscience to judge all extenuating circumstances in the quest to pass Cosmic Justice on others. Common justice is our appointed venue.

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    • Jear77 says:

      @griz cosmic justice doesn’t get passed in this iteration, and i simply can’t worry about whether or not the next exists. Way more than half the time common justice is miscarried.

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      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Some choose to carp constantly about their vision of Cosmic Justice not being done in this iteration!

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      • Jear77 says:

        @griz be that as it may… any iteration that has hitler as something that came to be… is not a world where cosmic justice can ever be seen as having existed.

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      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        The Quest for external monsters is the distractionary substitute for addressing one’s own internal monsters.

        We are each Hitler.

        But only those who own and reconcile with this, are proofed against following one or even becoming one themselves.

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      • Jear77 says:

        @griz in another thread you just stated we have the capacity for honor. Make up your mind!

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      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        There is no contradiction with what I’ve previously said.

        The Hitler who confronts their internal demons voluntarily before they manifest out of control on themselves and the world, is honourable.

        But excuses and evasions are not. Because then the monster can keep growing within until it manifests at a time and in a way of its choosing.

        This is why so many home-grown terrorists are appearing in America. They spent more time excusing evading or trying to ignore their internal monster; and it became strong enough to consume them and a portion of society around them.

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      • Jear77 says:

        @griz You realize so to would god be hitler as well, for making free will an option… or not taking it away from monsters like that when it was apparent what he was going to do… oh wait, he should have never existed to begin with because god has that ability as well, so the problems he brought forth could have never came to be!

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      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        The only freedom Hitler was known for granting his faithfful was unto atrocity.

        Whereas God (Life) grants the freedom to exercise good or evil. Go back to what I said about oppositional development as opposed to development without valence.

        With the freedom to choose, only the fool shakes their fist at the sky that they have the freedom to choose poorly, when they could also choose wisely. Why would one choose a toxic devouring progenitor? The person who would choose such should at least be honest enough with themselves to ask why.

        (Though the inability to do so may be a valid litmus test for ideological possession.)

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      • Jear77 says:

        @griz Such is useless… and an exercise in Manchouser syndrome yet again. By saying that god gives the choice then punishes for making said choice is god saying for every man, woman, and child he created “I’m a victim by both making you and allowing you to make choices because the choices can be wrong.”

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      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Self-examination for ideological possession is NEVER useless. A lot of practicing “Christians” could benefit from it.

        If you don’t brush your teeth and lose them all to terrible toothaches and infection, are you being “punished”? You really need to retire this point-of-the-child that every time there are negative consequences to actions freely taken, it’s “punishment”.

        Be wary of such a zeal to “make God in your own image”, that you would try to cast your victimhood ideology upon your “creation”. I truly fear you are infected by it.

        A point is reached where one is no longer truly functioning in extrinsic reality, but is actively trying to re-create the reality around in the image of the despotic god that is oneself. An imperfect self-victimizing little god — creates a “little reality” for themselves to dwell within that is imperfect and self-victimizing.

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      • Jear77 says:

        @griz actually not. But you’ll only understand how much a victim i am not only after i finish with my plan.

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      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Well that sounds ominous and intrinsically self-destructive. Any plan that increases your suffering — or that of others — over time is not a good plan.

        Is there someone with some training you can physically be in the presence of and talk to about this?

        Electronic interaction removes so much of the human element that essential for healing.

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      • Jear77 says:

        @griz no. A plan to revolutionize society.

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      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Be mindful of the mistakes of history — particularly relating to ideologies of victimhood and “the oppressed”.

        There are dire exercises the wise need not repeat.

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    • Scarlett says:

      @griz i have mixed thoughts on it and my thoughts are not solidified on the matter. With dementia we hear of people having good days and bad days, and if this woman was on an upswing and aware of her husband and what she is doing, who am I to judge? At the same time, it calls into question when one is capable of giving consent? When I worked in a nursing home we saw the gamut including a demented woman who would ask to have sex with her son who would come visit her…

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      • griz says:

        @Scarlett
        I think a part of the problem is that we have become so insanely obsessed with abuse as the fuel for the victimhood ideologies, that people start to see it everywhere.

        Are you familiar with the World War II phenomenon where people became so paranoid it was said they were “seeing Jerry’s in their bed pans”? Same idea.

        I think we both can agree there is a big difference between an adult son responding to their demented mother’s invite to sexual touching, and a husband responding to the same from his wife, within the traditional institution of marriage.

        If we can divorce this from the popular victimhood ideologies, there is no place for Common Law to meddle in such benign incidents.

        And fancying Cosmic Law within our purview (personally or through the Judiciary) is just vainglorious moral exhibitionism.

        Now add in the political skullduggery and the whole affair becomes rather putrid.
        Any ideology or agenda that considers this case a victory probably needs to be put in a box similar to that of Fascism and set aside.

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  2. ladybarbara says:

    I can only go by what I have seen from seniors with dementia and Alzheimer disease. I have witnessed 3 cases.

    My birth mother, at 89, was in a nursing home. She had dementia and severe retardation from age 5 years until death. Most of her life she was at a mental level of a 2 year old. In her lifetime she gave birth to about 9 children by various men and she loved their attentions. She was married twice, each husband knew that she had limited mental capacity, but she had something talented going on in the bedroom. At 86, in the nursing home, she had boyfriends that made it clear to me that there was hanky-panky going on. My birth mother was enthusiastic about sex. She was on heavy blood thinners to prevent strokes. She was having sex with an intern nurse that was raping the patients in the night. She held on to him after he finished and she still wanted more !!! This caused her to fall out of bed — to the floor — where she was injured and began to bleed internally. I sat by her bed as she slowly bled out and died. She was 89, almost to her 90th birthday. She may have not been able to live unassisted, she was way gone upstairs, but she liked how sex felt to her, even at 89.

    As a professional maid, I became a caretaker for a couple still living at home at 87. They both had dementia and Alzheimer’s. Quite often, I had to remind each of them –who– that other person was. There were times that I came to work and they were still in bed with their sexual play and showing each other deep affection. She once confided in me that she didn’t feel her sexuality anymore, but after being married to the love of her life for more than 60 years, she loved it when they shared affection. Everyone wants to be loved. At 89, he died and then she died days later of a broken heart. Thank goodness their adult children did not keep them from expressing deep love and bodily pleasures with one another.

    My Mom (an Aunt who raised me) was 95 when paramedics took her to the hospice home where she would die 5 years later. Even as the handsome paramedic team gave her an examination before transporting her, she was doing some heavy flirting with them. “I have everything I was born with, except my teeth and my cherry.” That’s what I heard her say to them. She loved the attention of men, even as she was nearly 100 years old. The desire for food, water, coffee, and affection never leaves you.

    My heart goes out to the man and his wife not being able to share the intimacy that they had for one another over the years. Even if she had lost her libido, she would still desire her husband’s embrace and desire for her.

    Children —- even adult children —- cannot fathom the fact that their parents have sexual needs and desires for one another. That is a shame. It is a basic need in life.

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    • griz says:

      @ladybarbara
      The woman’s daughter may have had her judgment encumbered by emotions or ideology.

      But the judge is supposed to be a professional, and should have recognized (s)he was intruding into a married couple’s bedroom.

      As the net effect was the sabotage of a respected politician’s career, one would think there was sufficient grounds to investigate the judge for political entanglements.

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    • Scarlett says:

      @ladybarbara Yeah, I think there is a misperception in society that the ages become asexual when studies show that is not at all the case. The paradigm for this is changing a bit. Years ago when I worked in long term care, we immediately placed them on a behavior plan if they expressed sexuality. Not saying I agree with that now, but it’s what the state surveyors at the time wanted to see and I wasn’t thinking critically then.

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      • ladybarbara says:

        @Scarlett Even if libido dictates that the aged no longer get it on in a youthful slamming-on-the-weenie, a couple does have an intimacy together. Each partner gets to know what the other likes and what they do together is private. They are “as one”. Beyond sex activity, there is a love bond that is private and their own. No human outgrows the need to be loved. Couples should be allowed their private time to express the intimacy that exists between them. To separate a couple and demand that they no longer express the love and need of intimacy with their life partner, and become non-sexual …. well that is a crying shame.

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      • griz says:

        @Scarlett
        This woman asked the right thing of the right person. Better asking it of her husband than a son or a stranger!

        So why not reward an example of competency amidst an increasing dementia?

        In a way it’s like rewarding an innocent child’s request for hugs and kisses from their parents, but pointing out that it’s wrong to ask for the same from the rough and seedy denizens of an Intercity bus station.

        Why not treat the sun rising and the sun setting on someone’s cognitive awareness, in a similar way?

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  3. five2one says:

    Really depends on the circumstances. I have certainly been taken advantage of when I have not been in my right mind. :sad:

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    • griz says:

      @five2one
      But how deep does that rabbit hole go? How much power would we have to ensconse in an authority to determine states of mind of everyone claiming regret for the way an interpersonal transaction played out?

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      • five2one says:

        @griz “But how deep does that rabbit hole go? How much power would we have to ensconse in an authority to determine states of mind of everyone claiming regret for the way an interpersonal transaction played out?”

        I think, what is most important, is to keep one’s self as pure in these regards as possible.

        The business of the world’s, is the world’s. We can participate, and one day, we will rule it, but I do not see evidence that day has already arrived. Despite the significant signs of it coming — or, even having already been. That is influence, but certainly – unless all the historical writings are untrue – it has not been where we should be.

        Revelation is impossible to sort out, but for what we can take, to go to the Lord, to ‘come’, to overcome.

        Such things as this, words of comfort, warning, and promise. Which might change as we see it in different circumstances.

        But, this world is not the Kingdom of God. The first resurrection has not happened yet. Jesus is not yet reigning with those risen up there. That is my leaning, anyway, I do not know these things for sure. I doubt you see it otherwise.

        This matters, as that, then, likely means we have to ‘come out of Babylon’, the proverbial one. Exiles coming back from the exile, as written of in Zechariah.

        We can and will change the world. We do so through the Spirit and the Bride. Through our struggles with principalities and powers. Through ‘overcoming to the end’. ‘Through the Spirit. Not by power, nor by might’.

        Otherwise, on the subject, directly, ‘consent’ is a powerful concept which is put forth. These ‘gentiles’ have been living like animals. Sexual sociopathy is highly regarded in this society, witness Cheers, Seinfeld, Two Men and a Baby (or whatever it is called). And so on.

        My first major gf was raped when she was drunk, and put that baby up for adoption. And at one party, one of the teenagers did that with a young girl. This, from my few experiences as a teenager, alone. I have no doubt this sort of behavior is as prevalent in society as people are saying, especially when colleges are rampant with sex. And high schools, moreso even these days then in the past.

        (Most of my drunken parties I did when I was 16, in 86, and I was the host. This did not happen under my roof.)

        (Did plenty of pot smoking and usually light drinking with friends since, but we never did these things, nor had those people around us. We talked philosophy and watched Star Trek, listened to weird music. Biked and swam, and visited friends. Live music. Austin.)

        I state this not because we were not human, but because even then, that stuff is ‘out there’ in the world. And so far from the Kingdom. It is a different place, one which is cursed.

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    • Scarlett says:

      @five2one Yeah I think this has happened to a lot of men and women. I think it comes down to whether the person can give consent, but who decides? And if a demented person is having a good moment and gives consent and then becomes confused, does it become rape?

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  4. I’ll just leave this here…

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    • ladybarbara says:

      @immortal_pirate This question is about sexuality between the elderly. Now, everyone is trying to guess what the hell I am doing to you that might be life threatening!!! That you are surviving my sexual treatment of you is good to know. At least you are “surviving” what might “kill” someone else.

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  5. Please disregard my previous response. Lady Barbara is treating me just fine,,,really…no really….believe me, really…

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