If it’s in someone’s head, NEVER expressed in any way, shape or form, no. The moment it becomes an action, the basis of a decision, or causes you to disrespect someone simply because of their race, yes.
@Fletch Can you say that the “N” word is a good thing? (Some people say the definition is an “ignorant person” but still… it’s needlessly hurtful and has negative connotations, something like the swastika, which used to be a religious symbol but not got turned into a symbol of hate). Or if you let them say hateful things, there should be no legal recourse against negative consequences. Someone says that word and are beaten up and/ or killed by the person/ people who they insulted… oh well, they brought it on themselves, therefore, the people who did the killing get off scott free, no arrest, no trial, no consequences. Period.
@Jear77 a good thing? it’s just a word, but it can also have a hurtful meaning.
Unless a black person uses it, which apparently is perfectly fine – which doesn’t make much sense, especially since I’m white, so I get killed for using it, and my killer “gets off Scott-free, no arrest, no trial and no consequences.”
It’s just not illegal to be that stupid (being a racist), is my point.
@Fletch Double standards exist for certain things. Language is one of them. It’s an unfortunate reality. But being racist, using racially problematic language doesn’t make the situation go away. It worsens it.
I think it should be treated the same as intercourse with a hole in the ground.
…as long as one isn’t bothering someone else it’s ok, but when your next-door neighbor blunders upon the scene one should fake a seizure. While they’re in the kitchen looking for a spoon to put in your mouth, you can clean up.
@griz Let’s see here…
What about starting with “You shall not kill.” Through this thing called mortality that he created, he breaks that law EVERY single time a person dies.
Judge not, lest you be judged. He supposedly judges us… yet when we turn those selfsame judgements onto the one who created the saying he’s none too thrilled about it.
Those are the most obvious ones. There are others, if I thought about it.
@griz mortal parents vs. someone who set up things where it’s impossible to escape from isn’t an accurate analogy. Keep that in mind that it’s impossible to escape death or judgement, biblically. A child can disobey in diverse situations and face no problems because of the parents have the ability to look at what else is going on. Not so with the impossibility of escaping death and eternal judgement.
@griz Not the same. You’re comparing apples and not even oranges… you’re comparing apples and APES (a fruit vs. an animal). With humanity there can be extenuating circumstances, ways of getting around what’s said (i.e. loopholes), and different points of view… not so with death and judgement.
@Jear77
So if one cannot equate apples and apes, what about comparing intelligent apes to the Creator of All?
Do you think there might be different rules, different reality, different experience?
You’ve used the example of not killing in another response and then got all bittere at God taking back life that is ultimately his to begin with.
if God truly is “The Spirit of Life”, then all expressions of Life are expressions of him. Life is “his property” to do with as he wishes.
And apparently he wishes us to grow into something far more than just dated meat sacks or pets programmed totally by instinct.
And then he gives us a concepts like morality, godliness, choice, to deal with is a part of some great learning curve to being something more than we currently are.
But only should we wish it! That’s cool.
Should we wish to partake of it. And if we don’t that leaves us kind of miserable and wanting; utterly confused at the meaning and purpose of it all.
@griz asking us to believe, asking us to make LITERALLY any decision(s) while giving us incomplete information (i.e. disallowing omniscience) is extremely unfair. In fact, as this is a game between extremely powerful entities, in essence, it’s cheating. Why play with a cheater?
@Jear77
Personally I cannot think of too many ventures in life where I had the luxury of “complete information” ahead of time.
Can you?
Even when I was sure I had done my research and homework, I would find that it had been incomplete.
And in a way this is what makes life interesting.
Anguishing at the manifest unfairness of my not being God? Or at the very least having him in my pocket and under my control? That just seems to be a shortcut to insanity.
@griz even so, because the reality is hidden UNLESS we *force,* +trick,+ =persuade,= and / or -blind- our minds to accept that which does not align with proof or our senses, why would we be held accountable? Hint: we shouldn’t be. An identical spiritual reality that everyone experienced except a few would be one thing – and it could be chalked up bad luck, poor genetics, a curse, bad attitude, or simple willingness not to see it, or the like. Yet this is not true. We each have our own minds. If we were a hivemind and could see exactly what everyone else saw, including these tricks to fool our collective selves of this spiritual reality that can’t be accessed physically. But it’s not like that… it’s the way things are now. Also you have to ask yourself, how many religions are there? Have there been in the past? How many interpretations of each of these religions? And as you said yourself there may be some truth to each of them… and seeing that a god isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be should be an EQUALLY valid observation… just so few people dare to express it, that’s all.
@Jear77
I have found that my senses don’t make a suitable Almighty! Things are often not what they seem or what I think they are. Worship of them has often led me astray.
Actually religion is based on the senses and fooling them. not just the census but the faculties as well like logic and reason.
Our feelings and senses can be useful tools. Just as science can be a useful tool. But they become religions when they become our Almighty — discerner and judge of all things.
They become a worship of the imperfect; aka, idolatry
@griz The problem is faith is required when it should not be. Faith should be sight and smell and sound and touch and taste and sense of motion and however many other senses we have that we typically don’t think of. Period. No questions about the subject. No arguments to the reality. No alterations (i.e. we’d all see the EXACT same thing, and it would be impossible to deny). No exceptions (no matter what a person’s culture they’d see the IDENTICAL spiritual landscape). For it not to be is not only irresponsible, it’s abhorrent due to that’s the one thing that will determine our eternal destiny. People could still disagree with the setup. People may still disobey. But unless the whole of humanity – from the single cell moment that the sperm hit the egg to a person’s dying breath saw it everywhere we looked we saw devils, angels, and maybe even god himself (since he’s omnipresent), there would be no denying it.
@Jear77
Faith is already a major fixture in your life! Faith in your senses and feelings, such as they are. Faith in your logic and reason such as they are. Faith in the slightly larger constructs of human logic and reason, such as they currently are.
You are already one of the greater practitioners of faith I have encountered.
All that I bear witness for, is simply applying that faith to something less fallible than just us. And towards something that does not have a guarantee of just death.
@griz Faith = senses? So you’re saying if I was permanently in a sensory deprivation chamber I would lose all faith, at least for the time that I was in it? (actually I heard that being in such a place is a trippy experience, akin to a LSD trip)
@griz The point is that if god was that interested in a relationship he should have allowed me to get a job so that I had the time to devote to/ engage in such a thing. Unfortunately I’m working 7 days a week just to try to get by, barely have any time to breathe, let alone pursue a relationship with something that is un-provable,,,,
@griz If I’m ever to get the amount of money I need to look into it again I need to spend every spare moment thinking about how to get money, applying to better paying jobs, and doing things that will put me into a position where I will never have to worry about money again. Honestly, I probably shouldn’t spend more than 30 seconds on here a day.
@Jear77
Actually there’s an interesting tie-in to tour post about Data’s tactic. (Though he played seeking a draw, not a loss; which confounded the ‘master’ who expected him to play to win).
Too much of a focus on money (the financial win) to the exclusion of personal (spiritual) development could be self defeating.
@Jear77
I wish you the best with them. Training and prudent planning is a good thing. The caution comes when we let them consume us, to the exclusion of more meaningful pursuits.
Consider the Jews: a race known for their financial acumen. Now consider the sheer volume of Commandments and guidelines aimed at keeping it from becoming a consuming Almighty in their lives. Things like committing their first fruits to God; and one day in seven when they were commanded to focus on things other than making a living.
They prospered as a race despite of this. Or perhaps because of it!
41 responses to “SHOULD RACISM BE ILLEGAL?”
If it’s in someone’s head, NEVER expressed in any way, shape or form, no. The moment it becomes an action, the basis of a decision, or causes you to disrespect someone simply because of their race, yes.
@Jear77 so no freedom of speech for racists?
@Fletch Can you say that the “N” word is a good thing? (Some people say the definition is an “ignorant person” but still… it’s needlessly hurtful and has negative connotations, something like the swastika, which used to be a religious symbol but not got turned into a symbol of hate). Or if you let them say hateful things, there should be no legal recourse against negative consequences. Someone says that word and are beaten up and/ or killed by the person/ people who they insulted… oh well, they brought it on themselves, therefore, the people who did the killing get off scott free, no arrest, no trial, no consequences. Period.
@Jear77 a good thing? it’s just a word, but it can also have a hurtful meaning.
Unless a black person uses it, which apparently is perfectly fine – which doesn’t make much sense, especially since I’m white, so I get killed for using it, and my killer “gets off Scott-free, no arrest, no trial and no consequences.”
It’s just not illegal to be that stupid (being a racist), is my point.
@Fletch Double standards exist for certain things. Language is one of them. It’s an unfortunate reality. But being racist, using racially problematic language doesn’t make the situation go away. It worsens it.
@Jear77
I totally (like, dude, really brah) understand that the issue doesn’t go away. It’s not going away now.
You can’t make stupidity illegal.
I think it should be treated the same as intercourse with a hole in the ground.
…as long as one isn’t bothering someone else it’s ok, but when your next-door neighbor blunders upon the scene one should fake a seizure. While they’re in the kitchen looking for a spoon to put in your mouth, you can clean up.
That’s how I deal with racism.
Interesting…
Even if it was, it would not change anything in my life, except I wouldn’t have to keep hearing about it on the TV and internet.
@ladybarbara
if there was no racism, your life would change somewhat. we’d probably all have more friends.
Interesting stance from an RPG site: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/12217/how-to-tastefully-convey-racism-in-rpgs
https://www.facebook.com/newlypress/videos/1870501836547522/
Click on The first line…
funny (I think it was funny) so I do not mean to offend if you are offended.
I cannot think of any social experiment that has incorporated any aspect of “thought police” that has ended well.
@griz yet this is the core of what god does. We are told we sin in “thought, word, and deed!”
@Jear77
Trying to judge God by Angel standards is what is credited as creating the devil.
What are your thoughts on trying to judge God by human standards? Is there a possibility it might result in a better outcome?
@griz by even his own standards he fails miserably…
@Jear77
Who’s standards?
@griz Let’s see here…
What about starting with “You shall not kill.” Through this thing called mortality that he created, he breaks that law EVERY single time a person dies.
Judge not, lest you be judged. He supposedly judges us… yet when we turn those selfsame judgements onto the one who created the saying he’s none too thrilled about it.
Those are the most obvious ones. There are others, if I thought about it.
@Jear77
Think about the parent who says to the child, “Thou shall not drive the car”.
But the child sees the parent doing it and cries, “They’re breaking their own rule!”
What would you say to such a child?
@griz mortal parents vs. someone who set up things where it’s impossible to escape from isn’t an accurate analogy. Keep that in mind that it’s impossible to escape death or judgement, biblically. A child can disobey in diverse situations and face no problems because of the parents have the ability to look at what else is going on. Not so with the impossibility of escaping death and eternal judgement.
@Jear77
What would you say to such a child trying to re-frame this as a function of the parent’s lacking love or morality?
(I ask this of you because I myself came to a place where I had to ask it of myself)
@griz Not the same. You’re comparing apples and not even oranges… you’re comparing apples and APES (a fruit vs. an animal). With humanity there can be extenuating circumstances, ways of getting around what’s said (i.e. loopholes), and different points of view… not so with death and judgement.
@Jear77
So if one cannot equate apples and apes, what about comparing intelligent apes to the Creator of All?
Do you think there might be different rules, different reality, different experience?
You’ve used the example of not killing in another response and then got all bittere at God taking back life that is ultimately his to begin with.
if God truly is “The Spirit of Life”, then all expressions of Life are expressions of him. Life is “his property” to do with as he wishes.
And apparently he wishes us to grow into something far more than just dated meat sacks or pets programmed totally by instinct.
And then he gives us a concepts like morality, godliness, choice, to deal with is a part of some great learning curve to being something more than we currently are.
But only should we wish it! That’s cool.
Should we wish to partake of it. And if we don’t that leaves us kind of miserable and wanting; utterly confused at the meaning and purpose of it all.
@griz asking us to believe, asking us to make LITERALLY any decision(s) while giving us incomplete information (i.e. disallowing omniscience) is extremely unfair. In fact, as this is a game between extremely powerful entities, in essence, it’s cheating. Why play with a cheater?
@Jear77
Personally I cannot think of too many ventures in life where I had the luxury of “complete information” ahead of time.
Can you?
Even when I was sure I had done my research and homework, I would find that it had been incomplete.
And in a way this is what makes life interesting.
Anguishing at the manifest unfairness of my not being God? Or at the very least having him in my pocket and under my control? That just seems to be a shortcut to insanity.
@griz even so, because the reality is hidden UNLESS we *force,* +trick,+ =persuade,= and / or -blind- our minds to accept that which does not align with proof or our senses, why would we be held accountable? Hint: we shouldn’t be. An identical spiritual reality that everyone experienced except a few would be one thing – and it could be chalked up bad luck, poor genetics, a curse, bad attitude, or simple willingness not to see it, or the like. Yet this is not true. We each have our own minds. If we were a hivemind and could see exactly what everyone else saw, including these tricks to fool our collective selves of this spiritual reality that can’t be accessed physically. But it’s not like that… it’s the way things are now. Also you have to ask yourself, how many religions are there? Have there been in the past? How many interpretations of each of these religions? And as you said yourself there may be some truth to each of them… and seeing that a god isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be should be an EQUALLY valid observation… just so few people dare to express it, that’s all.
@Jear77
I have found that my senses don’t make a suitable Almighty! Things are often not what they seem or what I think they are. Worship of them has often led me astray.
Actually religion is based on the senses and fooling them. not just the census but the faculties as well like logic and reason.
Our feelings and senses can be useful tools. Just as science can be a useful tool. But they become religions when they become our Almighty — discerner and judge of all things.
They become a worship of the imperfect; aka, idolatry
@griz The problem is faith is required when it should not be. Faith should be sight and smell and sound and touch and taste and sense of motion and however many other senses we have that we typically don’t think of. Period. No questions about the subject. No arguments to the reality. No alterations (i.e. we’d all see the EXACT same thing, and it would be impossible to deny). No exceptions (no matter what a person’s culture they’d see the IDENTICAL spiritual landscape). For it not to be is not only irresponsible, it’s abhorrent due to that’s the one thing that will determine our eternal destiny. People could still disagree with the setup. People may still disobey. But unless the whole of humanity – from the single cell moment that the sperm hit the egg to a person’s dying breath saw it everywhere we looked we saw devils, angels, and maybe even god himself (since he’s omnipresent), there would be no denying it.
@Jear77
Faith is already a major fixture in your life! Faith in your senses and feelings, such as they are. Faith in your logic and reason such as they are. Faith in the slightly larger constructs of human logic and reason, such as they currently are.
You are already one of the greater practitioners of faith I have encountered.
All that I bear witness for, is simply applying that faith to something less fallible than just us. And towards something that does not have a guarantee of just death.
@griz Faith = senses? So you’re saying if I was permanently in a sensory deprivation chamber I would lose all faith, at least for the time that I was in it? (actually I heard that being in such a place is a trippy experience, akin to a LSD trip)
@Jear77
I said your faith is in your senses. Not that faith equal senses.
And in a previous chapter of your life your faith was in your works.
And then in religion.
@griz The point is that if god was that interested in a relationship he should have allowed me to get a job so that I had the time to devote to/ engage in such a thing. Unfortunately I’m working 7 days a week just to try to get by, barely have any time to breathe, let alone pursue a relationship with something that is un-provable,,,,
@Jear77
And if he was really interested in relationship he should have got me the pony and Ranch spread in the shadow of the Rockies I wanted, right!
That’s not relationship. That’s using others for our own advantage. This could well be what derailed here earlier attempts in seeking God.
Most of my fellowship with God happens in the real world and not in those dedicated brick fortresses where religion dwells.
@griz i simply will never have time. We’re now up to $200,000 yearly and increasing.
@Jear77
there could be some self-fulfilling prophecy here. I am time-rich because I don’t run around asserting that I don’t have enough.
@griz If I’m ever to get the amount of money I need to look into it again I need to spend every spare moment thinking about how to get money, applying to better paying jobs, and doing things that will put me into a position where I will never have to worry about money again. Honestly, I probably shouldn’t spend more than 30 seconds on here a day.
@Jear77
Actually there’s an interesting tie-in to tour post about Data’s tactic. (Though he played seeking a draw, not a loss; which confounded the ‘master’ who expected him to play to win).
Too much of a focus on money (the financial win) to the exclusion of personal (spiritual) development could be self defeating.
@griz i’m taking classes. One for real estate. And another for financial stuff.
@Jear77
I wish you the best with them. Training and prudent planning is a good thing. The caution comes when we let them consume us, to the exclusion of more meaningful pursuits.
Consider the Jews: a race known for their financial acumen. Now consider the sheer volume of Commandments and guidelines aimed at keeping it from becoming a consuming Almighty in their lives. Things like committing their first fruits to God; and one day in seven when they were commanded to focus on things other than making a living.
They prospered as a race despite of this. Or perhaps because of it!
@griz Find the contact of “Warren Buffett” and tell him this. You know what would happen? You would be laughed at.