What is your primary threat response system? The four f’s are fight, flight, freeze, and fawn? Many people don’t realize the 4th one, but it is very prevalent. I tend to be a fawner. Fleeing is a close second. I feel like I have suppressed my fight response. I think this can be common in women. I think our primary threat responses developed in childhood because we learned to protect ourselves that way then, but may not be as useful now. When you are in one of these responses , how long do you stay in it? Do you feel you regulate your own nervous system easily and reach equilibrium again quickly after a threat?
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17 responses to “The four f’s”
Flight, as in avoiding a bad situation. Fighting does no good [usually]. Not sure you can control ‘freezing’. Fawning? Not exactly sure what that is.
@IceCreamMan intriguing. Can you draw a connection between the flight response you have now and what you did in your childhood?
Do you think it’s true that we should develop our other responses and act accordingly.
For example, if a bunny is being chased by a wolf it doesn’t flee, fight or fawn. It freezes (plays dead) because the wolf wants something it killed itself , not a bunny who is already dead.
Fawning is people pleasing.
I don’t think I have a primary response. I am a pretty flexible person and will usually adjust accordingly based on the situation and how invested I am. I didn’t know about fawning but just did some quick research about it – thanks for sharing.
I stay in my fight, flight, freeze or fawn mode until I feel that the situation is out of my control. When I realize that no matter what kind of response I have will have an effect of the outcome, I move on. Sometimes I bounce back quickly but other times I need a space of quietness to reflect on the situation and make peace with any disappointments, fear or anger that I hold onto.
@mamajoy Very fascinating. I am curious, would you describe your family of origin as functional? I ask because I am wondering if people who had a less traumatic childhood have this flexibility whereas some may have gotten “stuck” in one response that seemed to work best for them in the environment? That sounds very healthy that you are able to move yourself out of it! Yeah, fawning is an interesting one. There is a whole book dedicated to this. It’s called “Fawning.”
@Scarlett2 I think every family has a certain level of dysfunction, even if it’s a functional dysfunction (if that makes sense). But I fully believe that we develop our emotional survival skills in our childhood based on the environment, experiences and our influences. As we mature we can choose to focus on areas to grow upon, or be accepting of where we’re at.
“Fawning” and freezing are not wise options. Doing so puts you at the mercy of your aggressor. I was a correctional officer in a prison for twelve years, and as such I was trained to respond to situations where there were only three options, FIGHT, FLIGHT, or the preferred method to CONTROL and CONTAIN the situation. A correctional institution is a ‘closed environment’, with a distinct social structure. When an incident occurs, correctional staff approach the situation as a group, because there is strength in numbers. Granted, not everyone in a fight or flight situation has the option of strength in numbers out in the public. If one does not have specific training to survive a fight, then flight mode is your better choice. Create distance between yourself and the aggressor or the situation where you will probably have your ass handed to you by a superior foe. In most instances, ego and pride can get you hurt or worse. There is no shame in walking away from a potential fight. It is not a sign of cowardice; it is a sign of wisdom.
@Immortalpirate hmmm I’m not sure I agree with you that fawn or freeze are not good options. The freezing in particular is a natural part of the nervous system. The goal should be not to get stuck there.
That sounds like a tough position to be in. What you say makes sense for that environment.
I think the correctional system is broken, but it makes sense to protect yourself in this way.
When I was a child and my Mom beat me, I just fawned and let her strap me and gouge me with the heels of her high heels. She would beat me bloody. I tried to get back, although, I wouldn’t hit my Mom. However, I climbed inside a police car and lowered the top of my dress to show the strap and gouge marks to a policeman. That was in the 1950s and the policeman said it was my fault that I was beaten. If I was a better child Mom wouldn’t need to hit me. Roller Derby on roller skates taught me to fight and in high school I was on the wrestling team. My 2nd husband would beat me and he told me that he was going to punch me and I was not to fight him back. I fawned, but I would get revenge. I waited until he was sleeping. I gently wrapped the sheet around him and sewed it closed — mummy style. Once he was securely sewed into the sheet, I took my 3-ply stainless steel fry pan and beat the hell out of him. That was the end of that marriage. (I cooked dinner with that same fry pan tonight.) In 2013 a big man was drunk and cornered me in my neighbor’s kitchen. He said he was going to rape me. He is a large man and a bully. I kicked him in the nuts! When he bent over in pain I grabbed his head and brought my knee up swiftly as I brought his head down to meet my rising knee and I broke his nose. Then I put my weight behind a punch to his ribs (aiming for his back bone from the front.) I broke 3 of his ribs. He fell to the floor, drunk, and telling me to stop. I didn’t stop. I had my jack boots on and I went all around his body kicking him in my rage. Then I left him on the kitchen floor. I went home and prepared to clean my house and get ready to drive to Arizona to be with Immortal Pirate. I called Immortal Pirate 7 hours later to tell him I was about to leave to come see him. I told him what I did to Big Dave. Immortal Pirate told me to check on Big Dave. I kept Immortal Pirate on the phone as I checked on Dave. Dave was still on the kitchen floor and could not get up. He kept saying he was sorry and it was all his own fault. I went to the local bar and asked three of Dave’s friends to go help him get up. They took him to the emergency room. After that, I was known by friends as the woman who beat up Big Dave, and Dave avoided me. —- in the bar one night, a stranger sat next to me. He was watching the barmaid and I saw that he had a gun. The barmaid was my friend and I did not want to see a robbery. I excused myself to pretend I was going to go to the restroom. I came up behind him, wrapped my arms around his neck and toppled his bar stool over, pulling him down to the floor. I put my full weight and knee on his neck, cutting off his air supply. Of course he tried to push me off and my friends jumped on him to hold him still until the police came. In this case, I was to be arrested for attacking him first. I learned that I should finish a fight and not start a fight.——- In the parking lot of the grocery store, a teenage girl asked to help me put my groceries in my car, but instead, she reached for my purse. I throat punched her. She didn’t expect me to hit her and she backed away. —- My doctor loaded a needle with a flu shot and asked me if I wanted the shot. I said, “NO!” She pushed me up against the wall and gave me the shot with me yelling, “No!”. Without thinking, I punched her in the face. She stopped being my doctor. I could have sued her. I found another doctor. I’ve been beaten in my life and I have had enough. Now I strike back. Then there was the woman in the parking lot of the grocery store who wanted me to walk faster crossing in front of her car. She was calling me some very filthy names, wanting me to get my ass out of her way. I stopped in the middle of her car hood. As she did her filthy rant, I just stared at her. I did the deer-in-the-headlights stare. I froze — not in fear, but just to make her angrier. (I was amused) If she would have wanted to fight, I was prepared to fight. The store manager came out to see what this was all about. I made the deaf sign language for I am sorry, and said, “Amm shorry” (as if I was a deaf mute and didn’t hear a filthy word she said.) She stopped. I began to walk towards the manager. He asked what that was about. I told him she was telling me that my parents were not married when I was born.
@ladybarbara So in your superhero form, your frying pan is like Thor’s hammer.
@LuftBalloonEyeGouge Yes! It is my assault fry pan.
@ladybarbara let me know when your book is coming out. I would love to read more!
Seems like you were retraumatized as a child by the system designed to protect you.
@Scarlett2 Back in the 1950s the system didn’t help children. If a child was sent to the Principal’s office at school, you got a paddle on the butt and a stern call to your parents. Your parents would give you worse when you got home. The words, “Wait until your father gets home.” was a terrifying threat. I was saved by the designer Coco Chanel. My Mom was always into high fashion and leather belts gave way to the elastic sinch belt and patent leather lined with cardboard. Getting hit with light weight belts was a joke to me. What really saved me was the owner of the local roller rink hired me at 11 years old. He wanted to get me away from my abusive home as much as possible. He knew that my Mom had an unreasonable hot temper. He paid me adult wages and my job was to help keep the roller rink clean, to work in the Snack Bar, and to repair roller skates in the rental area. He encouraged me to play hockey, learn to dance on roller skates, do Roller Derby and speed club. This made me tough. in high school, I went into wrestling, being one of the two girls on the wrestling team and after school practice kept me away from home. Our Drama Class went to Paramount Movie Studios to watch Jerry Lewis make movies. I took classes at Clown College to learn to be a clown — just that much more time away from home. There were school plays that I was in and my clowning took me to every football game and local hospitals. In Summer, I worked at the hamburger stand and I was a surfer. All during these other things I did, my job at the roller rink was taken very seriously. Child Protection didn’t start until 1970, when society became aware of child abuse. By then, I had kids of my own.
If I think a situation may be bad, I’ll avoid if I can. If I am in it, it will either be fight or freeze. I did a flight once in school when this guy was way bigger than me and I was holding a large school desk so none of it was in my favor.
When I was in high school, I was at some football thing. While in the parking lot with my then girlfriend, this dude was yelling at his girlfriend to get in the truck. Some other witnesses told us that they fear for her, have feared for her for a while because of that guy. We froze on that. Said we wouldn’t freeze again for something like that. (I know now it can lead to a more dangerous situation for the girl involved, so it’s a delicate situation.)
There was a situation where I heard yelling from my neighbor and what sounded like abuse happening and thinking of that high school situation, I banged on their window. It wasn’t much, but it took a lot for me to do. Almost passed out even since it was so far out of my comfort zone and the adrenaline. I just heard him yell “WHAT!?” in response, then it quieted down.
In either junior high or high school, this dude asked a kid I know to see his glasses. I think he let him but something else was said and the dude hit him. A day or so later, he asked me to see my glasses. I said no. He said, “I outta hit you.” I said, “Do it then.” He walked away.
In high school at a pep rally, some guy was insulting me. He was with his girlfriend, I was with my then girlfriend. I took off my glasses about to do something, but my girlfriend said no, we will after the pep rally. (I forget the wording, but it was basically that. Though, knowing her, it was probably more like “I’ll handle it.” (I don’t know if she is a fighter, but she always talked like one) Right as it ended, they rushed out and were nearly in the front of the school where the buses are before we were even we out of the gym.
A few years ago, my uncle passed. My cousin (uncle’s son) came by to help fix some stuff in the trailer. He did a shoddy job, though that’s irrelevant. At the end of the day, he said he was taking my generator as an inheritance. I didn’t really know in the moment what was legal or who bought/owned what. I was so pissed off, I had to force myself to freeze. If I moved at all, I was likely to through some punches. My cousin is a fighter. Nothing I could have done would have been effective, and he could have killed me if he wanted. Still, I regret not doing or saying more — not contacting my other cousin, his sister, who I found out later owns the trailer. I bawled after that happened. So much rage and hurt. As much as he used me before, that just felt like a betrayal. He has done it with other family, but due to the circumstances, I just felt it would have been different. Obviously, I shouldn’t have felt that way, but it is what it is.
Some years before that, some cops followed my cousin to my house. He was there to pay me back some of what he owed me (which he still owes me.) He gave me some, cops knocked, they came in, they searched us, they stole all of this money out of his wallet. He was so angry he was crying when they walked out, I was pissed. I was raising my voice at them when they walked back in to talk shit and my cousin had to calm me down. My cousin was on parole, so he didn’t want to make it worse by getting emotional and also didn’t want me to get in trouble for being emotional. Due to that situation, I gave him back what he gave me to help him out.
These moments still gnaw at my brain. The generator situation I think was the only one that affected me for a while and can even still get me a little worked up. The others were largely done with quickly, like, a couple of hours tops maybe.
@yin seems like you vacillate between fight, freeze, and flee.
Have you heard of a functional freeze? It is a freeze that can last for years.
@Scarlett2 I don’t believe so, but I can see how it can be a thing. If you are frozen for years, does this or can this overlap with the fawn one?
I have fought a man without fighting, or even hitting him. He was living in my house with my renter when I moved back into my house. Three people lived in the house, Lowell Henry (who I had loved since childhood — and planned to marry), Lowell’s girlfriend, and Steve. Since I owned the house, I moved my kitchenware into the kitchen. Steve thought he was the boss of the kitchen. We argued daily. I told him to move out. Lowell’s girlfriend moved out. Steve insisted that he was NOT going to move out. On the night before I decided to move Steve out, I changed the locks on all the doors and gave Lowell the new key. After Lowell went to work, I took all the towels out of the bathroom. When Steve took his shower, I packed up all of his stuff in boxes and put it out on the sidewalk. Steve came out of the bathroom NAKED. He wanted to know where the towels were. And where were his clothing and possessions??? I told him his stuff is outside on the sidewalk. Covering his dick with a kitchen towel, he ran out to the sidewalk. I shut the doors and locked them. Steve banged on the door wanting in. I called the police and told them that I was all alone and there is an angry NAKED man trying to get into my house. The police came and arrested him. He begged me, calling me by name. I told the police that I didn’t know him and was shocked that he knew my name. The last I saw of him was when the police car drove away with him in the back, in handcuffs. My neighbor brought the boxes of Steve’s belongings into her house and gave them to him when she helped him find an apartment. I never saw him again. I won that fight , although I heard from friends that he called me bat shit crazy. Maybe I am.
I had a boyfriend before I met Immortal Pirate. The man announced that he was going to give up his apartment and move into my house. He announced that he will be the man of my house. I told him that this is where we need to break-up. He needs to leave my house. He wouldn’t leave. He thought he could bully me into sharing my life with him. NO MAN BULLIES ME!!! I told him to not only get out of my house, but get out of my life!!! He would not leave. I went out to the front yard to water my lawn and squirted him, insisting he leave. He ran inside my house, so that I wouldn’t squirt him again. I chased him all around the inside of my house with a power sprayer and 50 feet of hose. I soaked everything!!! He finally left my house. After he left, my housemate/renter came out of her room and asked what happened. I felt so embarrassed to have acted so insane. She helped me dry the carpets with the carpet cleaner, and I had to get rid of most of my furniture and buy new furniture. I won the fight!!! Although, the man refers to me as bat shit crazy. Maybe I am.