What are the elements of a good game?

The easiest way to answer this is to think of a recreational game.

What elements have to be there for it to be a playable game AND a good game?

As a species we play a lot of games that are not for entertainment purposes. Do you think the same elements have to be there?

80 responses to “What are the elements of a good game?”

  1. Weenis says:

    The endless pursuit of an intangible goal.

    Reply

    Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @Weenis
      For an infinite game, yes.

      But there are finite games worth playing as well. You’ve probably played a few with your son.

      Reply

      Loading spinner
      • @griz “But there are finite games worth playing as well.”
        As in ‘he who dies with the most toys wins’…but he still can’t take them with him when he dies.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @immortal_pirate
        Finite games are analogous to sporting events. A specified field. A specified time. Specified rules. Specified penalties. Specified players with everyone else just a spectator. Specified goal, and when either it or the time limit is reached, the game is over.

        Most games that are economic, social, or temporal, are finite games. Many are very worth playing, and playing well enough that you are invited to play other games. *

        *citations available upon request.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @immortal_pirate that goal of a game baffles me. If i can’t take care of my “toys” myself, i don’t want them. A mansion would be problematic to clean. I don’t know the 1st thing about mechanical things, it’d be stupid to purchase a vehicle, as i’d have to take it into the shop for any sort of problems except gas/ oil/ misc other fluidd

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        That’s kind of a “Welcome to the real world”!

        There are very few scenarios where one can have their cake and eat it too.

        It might be a useful exercise to explore where the notions and mindsets that don’t accurately reflect the real world, are coming from.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz you probably neber heard of the concept of the ‘tiny house’

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        I live in a bloody truck!

        But you are invited to unpack the point you are trying to make.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz A tiny house is a way to have one’s cake and eat it too – for a couple of different ways.
        1) It belongs to you. The government can’t take it because, if done properly, (or at least done as a type of a motor home) you can drive away in a matter of hours (less if you do without some conveniences)
        2) it’s transportable – mind you, you’ll have to find your way around low bridges and the like, but that’s a minor inconvenience
        3) you can live in it anywhere in a pinch without hookups (i.e. gas, water, electricity) BUT you have all the conveniences of home if you have them.
        4) it’s less hassle to clean than a normal house
        5) It’s more “visitor friendly” than a truck (try having 6 people to visit you in your truck! )

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        A game without commitment or obligation is not a good game.

        Someone who feels they can dodge the rules or just get up and leave if they don’t like the way things are going . . . Is soon not invited to play any reindeer games and their shiny nose will likely come out of a bottle.

        I think the mobile home concept has been around for a very long time. It can be a viable solution to some problems in the short-term.
        But eventually one is just . . . Well there’s a name for people stuck in such a dead-end that is not a very nice one.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz There are vagabonds, true. There are such people who wander from place to place – there’s even troupes surrounding it – the wanted man – TV shows like Kung Fu, The Incredible Hulk, the Fugitive, and more. In the olden days there were itinerant preachers, cattle hands, railroad workers, and the like – christ himself was one such. And isn’t it your goal to be his shadow? And what are Mexican migrants, except the real life embodiment of that in this day and age?

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        There is a huge difference socially and psychologically between Nomads moving towards something, and somebody running from something.

        Perhaps because they tried to live outside the rules of the game a few too many times and people are fed up with their anti-social ways.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz meh. Wandering is wandering.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        But the meaning that defines it is Paramount.

        There is a huge difference between wandering to find something . . . and fleeing something. Elements of both can be there in a quest. But there’s a lot more freedom and not having to elude something.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz jesus himself was a fugitive. The Roman authorities would’ve arrested him long before they did if it wouldn’t have caused them trouble!

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        True, locally. But was the over-arching meaning of his time on Earth moving towards . . . or running away?

        Jear. These really are not difficult things to discern. I would return to the observation that having a limiting man-made agenda (ideology), blinds.

        It has one scrambling to re-assemble and re-define things so the house of cards doesn’t topple in the face of manifest reality.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz oddly this reality is so mannifest that it can’t even pass the muster of placebo? No thanks.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        But there’s the rub! Our local meanings are given power, according to the belief we attach to them.

        If one believes with religious zeal that there is only pain and suffering and life is an unworkable equation . . . They will be committing blasphemy against themself to see anything but this. And the longer they have argued apologetics for that mistaken ideology, the more of a fool they will have to own being as cost of escaping it.

        Blatant evidence right before their eyes will HAVE to be dismissed (excluded by radical exception), lest their meaning and themselves become entirely invalidated.

        It’s an insidious trap for the soul (a spirit lost)

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz it has to reach the 73% betterment all the time for me, or it’s useless. A single miracle? Big yawn. You know how much the bible says a lifespan is? 120. No one lives that long, even with the technology we have. 73% more is 200+! If Christians were 73% healthier, tge healthcare industry would go bankrupt, as they wouldn’t have enough people to hawk their snake oil to. If Christians were 73% better financially, they’d be among the 27% wealthiest people in the world. If Christians were better ofd relationship wise, they’d have either no divorces or significant less than the norm.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        When properly applied, less stress from fewer “freak-the-hell-out” pokey-holes in one’s maps of meaning could be a longevity factor.

        But there’s also a paradox at work. Not seeking one’s own greater glory or profit, sometimes results in these very things.

        Not always mind you. Jeremiah is one example.

        A 73% betterment rate!?
        Even Darwin would blow a gasket laughing that one off! :rolf:

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz hey, even if people regularly lived to 150, that’d be proof enough. People barely make 110!

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        But a longer life would mean more potential for the dreaded challenges and possible suffering leading to growth!

        Without a philosophy that puts one at peace with life such an existence would be misery.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
    • @Weenis “The endless pursuit of an intangible goal.”
      That is a race to the horizon, which is forever just out of reach…

      Reply

      Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @immortal_pirate
      There can be a lot more to most finite games, than people realize.

      They fill a need that they can barely articulate — but still see a profound value in. So much so, that they indeed WILL pay just to be a spectator of it.

      It makes you wonder just what kind of archetype or grand narrative, might be present.

      That is not saying infinite games are unimportant. Only that finite games are too.

      Reply

      Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @immortal_pirate
      That was a movie that really exceeded it’s times, and it’s cinematic scope to become something far more.

      But still something that most cannot fully articulate.

      Thanks for reminding me of it!

      Reply

      Loading spinner
  2. Kevin Costner “Field of Dreams” 25 years later

    Reply

    Loading spinner
  3. ladybarbara says:

    It needs at least two players, a goal, and rewards.

    Reply

    Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @ladybarbara
      And rules: a prescribed acceptable way to reach those goals.

      And perhaps both competition AND cooperation?

      Games are an analogy for life — or at least aspects of it. (Piaget)

      Reply

      Loading spinner
  4. Spitfire3dC says:

    Fair competition
    Skills versus luck
    An opponent who wants to win as much as you may

    Reply

    Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @spitfire3dc
      Set rules and penalties. (Nobody likes a cheat)

      Someone who wants to both cooperate and compete within them.

      Yes. These are essential components in any finite game.

      Reply

      Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz why are there cheat codes to video games then?

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        It would seem, a clear case of achieving something one hasn’t worked for.

        But surely you’ve heard it said, “There are no cheat codes in life”; and “In the book of life, the answers are not in the back”.

        Live is like a Grand Experiment — for those with the bravery to take it on.
        All the rest, just dabble in it by proxy, and grow bitter.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz says you. God, according to his own power is the ultimate cheat code. Not giving his followers access to thr game genie (it’s a device that ysed to be plugged into video games) is unfair in the extreme

        Reply

        Loading spinner
  5. Spitfire3dC says:

    To your second question; what isn’t a game?

    I think you can take almost anything and “play” it. What job doesn’t have skills development and an objective to accomplish?

    Maybe treating things like a game through life, might be the whole point of learning to play games as a child.

    The biggest game? Survival. The stupidest game? War using tools that kill, versus using brains to resolve. Game over. No reset.

    There is one thing about games that is important. You are either playing, or you are watching. Somehow, many watchers try to take credit for a win, just because they want a particular team to win. It is probably the most fucked up dynamic that many in the first world are afflicted by. That, and most money (points) wins. The stupidity of the endless pursuit of a tangible goal, for the purpose of the intangible sense of success, through a feeling of being in control in a game where we literally have no control. Dumb.

    Reply

    Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @spitfire3dc
      Two very gifted philosophers / psychologists (Paget, Jung) came up with some interesting observations of games.

      The best ones are like stories; Grand narratives or archetypes, perhaps implanted in us at a genetic level. They are sets of instructions on “how you should be”, for maximum effectiveness.
      Or conversely, “how not to be”, resulting in disgrace or folly.

      Children play them as explorations of how to be effective in adult society. And the adults support the training up of our most gifted players; and then live the narrative through them at a profoundly visceral level as spectators. We have other games we’ve been playing, one of which is to be successful enough to have the money to support these teams of prime players! And we’ve allowed them to devote all of their energy to becoming the best humanly possible within the parameters of that specific game. So it’s a grand human narrative, participated in by proxy.

      We do some dumb things with the results of this cooperative and competitive process. But I don’t think the process itself is dumb.
      It’s perhaps borderline foundational. I’m hard-pressed to think of a culture that was remotely stable over time, that did not have its equivalent of gladiators acting out grand narratives in games; fine-tuned according to what each society felt was most meaningful at that point of Human Experience within the time stream.

      Reply

      Loading spinner
    • Jear77 says:

      @spitfire3dc the game of life is a board game.

      Reply

      Loading spinner
  6. Jear77 says:

    Rules that are able to be used, altered, or ignored as the players see fit.
    An end goal that allows for a win, lose, and tie/ draw state
    The ability to have fun (if this is not true, don’t play the game)

    Reply

    Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @Jear77
      Such a game can only be played alone.

      And “alone-games” are very much at risk of becoming mental illness or psychopathy.

      Reply

      Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz not really. RPGs don’t necessarily have a win state, and it’s up to the GM to adjudicate or adjust the rules according to the players’ actions. Fighting games can have mutual KOs, rung out, or time run out. Even word games can have other dictionaries used. A game where one party gets to make the rules without adjustments according to who is playing and what rules are to be used, where not everyone has fun makes the person running the game a despot.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Do you think the RPG’s might be a factor in your thinking you should be able to order reality to your liking? And if you cannot, the “ruling GM” must be evil?

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz i’ve always bent the rules, found exceptions, ways of doing things my way for such games. But these games are short lived, as it takes a steady schedule to be able to commit to play or run them. Why do you think i refuse to attempt to see things from god’s viewpoint unless i become wealthy? The reason is simple: if i can’t even find time/ energy to do the things i love, why should i care about taking on something that i can no longer find a single point of common ground with any of the basic 10 commandments? It would drain me to even try.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Uh, there is a New Testament you know?

        It’s like someone who says, “Hitting myself on the head with this hammer hurts”.
        So try using it to hit some nails with and build something!
        “Yea, but hitting myself on the head with this hammer hurts!”.
        So use it for something else.
        “Yea, but hitting myself on the head with this hammer hurts!!”.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz i find little commonality / agreement with the new testament either.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Because of what it is? Or because of what you came to it carrying?

        If what we are carrying keeps wearing us down, blinds us and pokes out our eye . . . put it down and stop carrying it!

        Then things can be what they are; and not what our baggage defines them as.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz because of the fact the world doesn’t work that way.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        That’s sort of why it exists, has persisted for so long, and been praised by so many!

        The world, left to default, certainly doesn’t work that way. But enough people ascribing to Godly principles could have it working far far better than it currently is.

        But first before doing this . . . they would have to use the wisdom there to get their baggage in order . . . rather than trying to scheme out ideas to bend the rules to leverage things out of it for personal glory.

        Any system, no matter how inspired, can be brought down by enough people stuck in just such a troglodyte mode.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz not my point. A more laser focused view should come up with the conclusion that as long as good actions, thoughts are not immediately profitable, people will continue do the wrong thing. As a matter of statistics, they’ll get away with it too. And who can blame them? Who wants to do something at day’s end will hurt both in the short term and in the long run, because others will never think, act on that/ those wavelength(s).

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        A laser-focus on short-term profit is exactly the Human failing that many forms of spirituality seek to address.

        One of Paul’s more amazing speaking points on “freedom” is that it is far more than just what is “permissible” (what one can get away with), than what is “beneficial”.
        Which comes on the heels of discourses on mastering ego and selfishness — giving “beneficial” a far broader scope than just self.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz getting back to proof. Even if many play lip service to god, they don’t really live as if such a thing exists.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        I think you can rightly discern they are just playing games. In fact, I think a big part of your consternation is that so many of them are just playing finite games, while paying just lip-service to “the infinite”.

        There’s a critical balance between “works don’t save (or prove one is saved)” and “by their fruits [works] you shall know them”. It’s not as big a conundrum as it might sound. As I’ve said, you already seem keenly aware of those who are just just playing religious (ideologue) games.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz the point is that if god exists, such things wouldn’t be possible. It would be immediately obvious and their scam exposed. One word: televangelists.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        If God was a tyrannical dictator such things would not be possible.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz hence why free will is a scam.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Freedom tends to end with thunderous applause.

        (From Queen Amidala in the Senate when the Empire started its takeover)

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz if there are only 2 choices, is it truly freedom… or is it simply the illusion of such? What’s worse is that it really isn’t a choice at all. Pottery designed to be broken to the glory of the potter, and such verse

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        You’re still trying to argue an absolutist utopian agenda.

        There’s not a lot in that that can stand without constant propping up. And you my friend are wearing out your resources with your constant propping up of something that cannot stand on its own.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz actually not… the concept that I’m trying to portray in that last response was the idea of “predestination” – i.e. that god knows and has chosen already who is saved and who is not, and nothing can change that list, nothing can make god change his mind – don’t forget that one of the verses says “I change not” – that whole scene with Abraham begging for the city of Sodom and Gomorrah… that was just a sham. There’s not a single thing we can do to get into heaven – it’s even implied that the holy spirit has to make the people who believe willing to accept it. Also, there’s basically an infinite number of things we can do to keep out of it. If that’s not a false choice, I don’t know what is!

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Life is what it is. One can waste a lot of valuable resources hoping fearing anguishing what it is isn’t it may not be.

        The fellowship with the very Spirit of Life totally removes this from the category of things I need to hope fear worry anguish about.

        And that’s a very wise use of resources.

        But if you still want to worry about the “destined to be dammed” conundrum, consider the hand each of these examples had in their own destiny. Are there any who weren’t given the chance to “choose better”.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz not always. What of the aborted fetuses? What of the people who were in WWII in Japan during the bomb who disagreed with the politics of their nation (I doubt ANY country would have willingly taken Japanese refugees if they fled their homeland). What about someone who is sitting in their own house, getting hit by bullets by a drive by shooting? Not everyone has an opportunity to change things.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        I would advise caution in “importing” suffering. You are already having enough trouble with your own, without partaking of it by proxy.

        So for now rejoice that you were not an aborted fetus; and your living voice might help reduce the suffering.
        Rejoice that you were not in Japan when bullet-brained military leaders lead them to the brink of destruction. Do what you can to caution against this happening again.
        The abundance of flying bullets in the United States certainly is a concern. Rejoice that you have not yet been hit by one unto the ending of your life, and raise your voice to address this concern.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz uh… I can’t even find words for that.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        The word you may be looking for is gratitude.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz not even close in the slightest. According to the “hot/cold” game, you would be at “absolute zero” in terms of cold

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Well maybe you’re not grateful that you weren’t aborted?
        I can afford to be grateful for such a thing. And for not having the drive to ride aborted fetuses into battle against God!

        As I’ve said you already seem to have more than enough suffering of your own. You really don’t need to engage in it by proxy.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz no. I place an infinitely negative value to existence.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        This is obvious.
        Perhaps if you didn’t import suffering and try to live it by proxy?

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz doesn’t matter. Without taking pain meds (which I simply can’t do, so i don’t risk getting addicted) or working out after/ before work (which I simply don’t have the energy for), there’s little I can do about the almost constant pain i am in. Now it may go away for a bit, but it has a habit of returning. Catch 22

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        If you’re under a doctor’s care for chronic pain, the two of you may have to consider skating close to the line of addiction to give you quality of life worth living. If it’s a true degenerative condition, addiction may be the lesser of two evils provided it’s managed by a doctor. My mother followed this path to her death; and in a way the family suffered right along with her.

        But if it’s just the pain of getting physically older and the body wearing out, an addiction will just make things worse.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz it’s this job. I REFUSE to take even OTC meds unless it’s absolutely necessary, mainly because it’s my own damn fault for being out of shape, and it’s the job to be on my feet, and by dealing with the pain, i might be able to get in better shape. My dad weened him off the 2nd most addicting pain med in existence. It took him years.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        Ah, I see.
        The body complains when we change our physical routine to a more active one. I faced this seasonally on my old job.
        I was addicted to narcotics years ago when I was trying to sort out the suffering in the world equation. So I stuck with simple analgesics, stretching regiments, hot and cold soaks.
        I was also fortunate enough to have a friend who was a massage therapist. I couldn’t afford the going rate on what I made, so I played taxi did odd jobs in fixed her computer in exchange.

        But give serious thought to the stretching regime. A proper one can have you feeling decades younger plus it’s free.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • Jear77 says:

        @griz i do calenstentics (not sure that’s spelled right) on the floor…looking crazy as hell doing no weight curls, shifting my weight, leg circles, walking my hands up the walls, and squatting. But maybe it’s worth getting up 15- 20 min earlier to stretch in a more concerted manner.

        Reply

        Loading spinner
      • griz says:

        @Jear77
        I have a stretching routine I do right in bed before my feet even hit the floor. Just remember to do the morning ones gently. You don’t want to start your morning with a calf spasm!

        Reply

        Loading spinner
  7. Scarlett says:

    I like games that make me laugh.

    Reply

    Loading spinner
  8. I think the main element of a good game would be that it holds your attention without coercion.

    Reply

    Loading spinner
    • griz says:

      @luftballooneyegouge
      Essentially structure (order), challenge/risk (chaos), a destination (reward), and a morality/meaning (an agreement between players that the destination is a worthy one, and acceptable ways to achieve it).

      If any of these are missing it seems that our brains reject it as a bad game.

      Reply

      Loading spinner

Leave a Reply

Search the Site