I think, it is quite clear, we can not have a truly functional ‘free world’, until some massive, “corporate” institutions, immaterial institutions, are taken down. I do not think this is possible by humans.
I do not mean by this McDonald’s, but manmade institutions, systems of ideas, which are all rooted in our past, in ‘Western Civilization’… be that the ‘creation of myth of human beings arising from the chaotic forces of the primordial ooze’ (Babylonian creation myth), or something that seems the best we can do (free systems of material and immaterial economies).
© 2026 – SoulSequel
33 responses to “What Does the Free World Need to Be Truly Free?”
That’s like asking a participant in some incredibly long race who has never seen the finish line, what it looks like and how to improve it!
Until such wisdom might fall upon us, the best realization of freedom would perhaps have to be the best freedom we can realize on the most dimensions across this particular foot-fall.
My thought is that it would have to be something metaphysical — because we already know that the physical has boundaries, and what the most pernicious of them is.
And it would have to be capable of some sort of renewing of the mind as hinted at by Christ (The Spirit) or Nietzsche (The Ubermensch).
@griz hahaha… oh, i so hate nietzche these days, but have to hand it to the guy, he had some daring and innovative ideas.
But, yep, nothing we can do, but sit around and try and be happy while these folks destroy themselves.
@five2one
Well, there’s something to be said for being in their midst and demonstrating NOT destroying oneself.
(With responses in-line with what Christ experienced: all the way from gathering to listen when they like what you’re sharing to “Crucify him” when they don’t!)
Jesus Christ.
3 words: post scarcity society
@Jear77
Perhaps no such think in this incarnation.
Because even if there is no scarcity of “objects”, there will be scarcity of “agency” (freedom, liberty).
Remember, the Avengers kicked Loki’s butt when he proffered this to the world.
So pick your “scarcity”.
@griz the point about the Avengers and Loki is they knew the endless stuff would be illusion. Growing up, i read a series of books by Piers Anthony called *The Incarnations of Immortality* in which beings such as mother esrth, the personification of death… even god and the devil were replaced. In it people wwre selling their souls a drop of blood at a time for a buffet, and the reality of the situation is that they were eating garbage. Similarly in Disney’s Aladdin, it’s theorized that all those people and animals the genie created were actually transformes flies. A *true* post scarcity society wouldn’t be based on illusion
@Jear77
I wonder if you can ever accept that what happened to you is what I classify as “religious abuse”, where they use actual snippets of the bible to give a false impression of of the concept of God?
Regarding “illusion”, one could have this mean almost anything one wants. For example, if “everyone is living an illusion” (or even a delusion??), mine is one of the finest I’ve ever “tried on” (and I’ve tried on a few).
Whereas I get the impression you would “sell your soul” for an advantage.
Here’s another thought.
What if “reality” in the present context, is merely the illusion that we act upon with the conviction it is real? In that regard we are truly “creative” (in God’s image). We have that power, but we can re-direct it as we please (freedom).
So if that “divine image” involves your enemies laying dead at your feet, you have the freedom to make it so. If it involves taking advantage of others when they’re not looking/paying attention to their shit, you can make that so too.
BUT, there are both over-arching and under-pinning structures (realities, narratives) in place. And they spin off consequences into multiple “streams”. And the poor man who thinks he can leave himself without a leg to stand on still falls on his butt and wants to call gravity a tyrant!
We have TREMENDOUS ability to “create” a reality for ourselves and those around us that can be both “more heavenly” and “more hellish” that we currently have. And that’s huge.
To argue and excuse it away, is perverse.
@griz if this life, what we see here were truly an illusion, we’d do ourselves an infinitely huge favor by killing ourselves… and anyone we could take with us to free ourselves (and them) of it. It would be the MOST compassionate thing to do. But it’s not. And we’ve had this discussion before. You really don’t believe. Anything who did would be anxious, chomping at the bit to rid themselves of the here and now. You say the here and now is important… but remember the time scale: in eternity nothing can make a difference, because all actions, all possible actions… and the ripple effects are fully known. To a god that knows all, he cares nothing, because to care would indicate uncertainty.
@Jear77
“Only that day dawns to which we are awake” Thoreau,
If now is the dream we are slowly awakening from to the unlimited conscious awareness of Eternity, what can come forth from a hellish dream other than a hellish eternity?
If we somehow create the Eternal reality we will exist in, why make it hellish?
And if the now is the penultimate reality, why not make it as Heavenly as possible?
@griz you don’t need any of the bible’s concepts, concerns, rules, or worship of a diety to make the world better for yourself. That is a fallacy.
@Jear77
I’m disappointed in you. Are you saying you spent as much time as you’ve asserted with your head in the Bible studying it, and you don’t understand the difference between a dispensation of rules and a dispensation of Grace?
You need the concepts more desperately than anyone I’ve met in quite a while. The worship of Life wouldn’t hurt you either, because you’ve turned into a worshiper of death. And that cannot end well.
The religious concept of God?
Yea, you could let that one go, and probably be better for it.
@griz grace… i know the acronym. God’s riches at Christ’s expense. The problem is that god foreknew… grace is a meaningless concept when it comes to omniscience. Why the game? You knew who would accept the gift, who would not. Don’t come to me saying it’s a gift when it’s basically been predetermined. If not directly, then tangentially. Some people might argue that it’s a paradox, but when it comes to such all encompassing knowledge, it matters nothing provided god could do something about it, i.e. the saul-paul conversion.
@Jear77
The problem comes when the acronym is all we know. Genuine study is intended to get beyond such superficials.
Because we are not omniscient, Grace is a perfectly acceptable level of analysis. (Be wary of the delusion that we can judge something that we are not and have never been. Ponder, yes. Condem, not so much)
Why the game as you call it? Because that is how we as a species learn. Inspiration to enacted representation to articulation to free voluntary instantiation – Piaget iirc). Maturity simply means we learn through more complex and less simplistic games than children.
Everyone’s epiphany into a fuller adult maturity that is greater than just self will be different. Playing epiphany comparison games will arguably do more to retard the process than help it along.
As will the constant quest for responsibility fault and blame in everyone except self.
@griz remember god, if it exists, is supposedly omniscient. Of what problems creating a species with innate (natural, gene based) that had no need to learn, a form of omniscience of its own? I see none. That’d totally eliminate half or more of the game. A cornerstone of knowing everything would be the status of their salvation.
@Jear77
Not being omniscient ourselves, we only have speculative imagination (if free-thinking), or ideology (if possessed).
Neither are a suitable foundation for performing this task with any kind of scientific certainty.
So we’re back to what we will choose to do with this moment to make tomorrow either more Heavenly or more hellish.
@griz and how can one use scientific inquiries to obtain information about one’s own salvation?
@Jear77
We’ve talked about this before.
It’s the same “proof” one finds for the wisdom of relationship. There is no equation. You cannot stick it in a test-tube and reduce it component elements.
You participate in one. And then another. And so do millions of others. And a pattern forms. Then comes a clinical consensus. Processes that work are reiterated through time — perhaps even as part of our DNA over many cycles of evolution. The things that work, tend to remain. The things that don’t, go extinct.
And our not liking something with some archetypal umph, or not successfully running the experiment in our own life, is no kind of proof. Lack of success or failure to launch, is no kind of proof. It is simply a failing, that we can then work to climb on top of, or get buried under.
Here’s a thought. You get SO much wrong about the model of Christ’s teachings on such a regular basis . . . isn’t it feasible that despite all the years of study you say you devoted to it, you got it wrong because the model and the understanding if it was wrong?
Try baking a complex pastry with the wrong directions and see how that goes. And we’re talking here about something FAR more complex than a pastry.
@griz the problem is in order to consider such a thjng in a million years i need to know exactly what I am getting, outside vague language. I need the one thing i will never get: a iron-clad contract with every single possible situation covered, no loopholes, no wiggle room, so if i don’t get my end of the bargain, i can say “look, this piece here isn’t being fulfilled! God is in breach of contract”
@Jear77
Is the next month spelled out that clearly? The next week?
The next day?
If a belief system requires such silly justification it is a silly belief system.
I understand how it can become super charged with regrets and bitterness. But that’s all the more reason to strive to escape such silly ideologies.
@griz no. Literally every noment of my existence from that moment forward. if you had something that told you where to go, what to do, wouldn’t that make your life easier if you couldn’t figure out what to do next?
@Jear77
It would make your life not yours but someone else’s.
It’s profound how some crave a controlling tyrant. And then rail at a controlling tyrant!
Holy shit Jear!!
Take a few steps back from your victim hood ideology and take a look at yourself.
@griz that is *exactly* what Christianity teaches. We are NOT our own. If you understand this you should seek to leave the participation with such a deity…
@Jear77
Do a study in the concept of the bond servant.
You are far less “your own”, than I am. And I have far more power in my destiny than you do.
I serve because I choose to. Because I can see the greater value in it for everyone.
And that’s an awesome freedom.
Something worth participating in.
It sure the hell better than playing the perpetual victim.
@griz you say you’re free, yet there are things you can’t do because of your beliefs, because you believe that there’ll be consequences. I on the other hand am free to anything i please and see no consequences because i chose there to be none. Why? “ALL things are permitted!”
@Jear77
It’s more like I know there will be consequences that would render me silly to go there. But even in this, I can choose to be silly should I wish it.
Freedom does not equal irresponsibility: and actually might even be a “consequence” of the proper taking up of responsibility.
Again with the verse-snippets??
Are you able to complete that verse you started?
(If not, I’ll complete it in my next response. But it would be wiser for you to self-correct the misrepresentation).
@griz all things are all things. Anything less than that makes god a liar. I care nothibg whether it’s beneficial or not!
@Jear77
But the verse you are trying to misuse makes a strong correlation between those two things. (Permissibility and beneficiality [within the context of Paul’s letter]).
And strongly implies a consequence: being mastered or pwned.
And hey: perhaps by in intellect-consuming ideology? (As good a time as any to bring Nietzsche into the conversation. Even though he was an outspoken critic of organized Christian religion, he accurately foresaw the lunacy of ideologies that would result from ‘God’s demise’ as people tried to fill the transcendent void with things just temporal.)
@griz you forget, those matter nothing to a hypocrite either.
@Jear77
Convenient, but not helpful to anyone yourself included.
Or in the context of Paul’s letter, permissible but not beneficial; resulting in one being pwned by the very thing they think will set them free.
@griz the point is by using a “nimberger tricter” sp? (a special shovel designed to shovel coal into a chute such as to not allow the chute to get blocked) to shove your own meaning down other’s throat(s) you lose.
@Jear77
Disentangle that from ego.
There is the selfish meaning that one tries to subsume objective reality with (leading to unhappiness disillusionment resent and bitterness).
But find the reality that is greater than selfishness and participate with it in a meaningful way, and it’s no longer “your meaning”.
It is greater than self[ishness].
It is transcendent.
The selfish driven fear of the Transcendent can only result in foolishness.
(A reminder that we’ve spoken before at length about the difference between healthy fear in the historic context and unhealthy here in just the modern context)
@griz said meanings are spelled out in a dictionary? No. Don’t bother me with them.