I guess interpretation of the word toxic might be broad, but as I see it (a kind of dynamic the fuels towards the negative), leadership can become toxic when followers follow out of fear (either towards the leader specifically, or towards a group that a leader may be guiding a fearful response to).
Leadership based on fear mongering has become the norm these days. Why not? It works and is as easy as expressing bullshit enough times that idiots will just start reciting on autopilot, because it takes significantly less effort that actually considering ideas on their merits.
Ironically this was learned through the practice of religion as a mind shaping tool. And what are politicians but a version of the religious leaders, that create legalities and then put people in a place of fear if they don’t follow what they thing everyone else accepts?
The problem is that everyone thinks the stupid ones are “them” and the them’s think the stupid one are the not them’s.
Leadership is toxic when it can manipulate followers on the existence of the brand the leader represents and nothing else of any substance.
@spitfire3dc
Consider “toxicity” as “poison”. It can rather quickly kill the organism out right; can slowly kill it over time; or can just weaken it and keep it from being all that it can be without actually killing it.
I think that misinformed or self-serving leadership can become toxic.
Not everyone possess admiral leadership qualities. I think that before anyone shows support for any leadership they should become familiar with those whom they stand behind. Otherwise, be a lemming and keep quiet about it.
@mj
The thing about effective leadership is that it can be in a style that you are not familiar with or that you might not particularly like at the time.
One example of a very effective leader in my life didn’t shrink from using a bit of fear to get the job done. He was no stranger to shaming people either. But both were means to an end and not an end unto themselves. He was always looking to prepare people to take on larger roles. He was very fatherly, in an old-school, drill sergeant sense.
He washed-out a lot of employees than arguably we’re not going to make it in the long run — send more than a few of them home crying.
But those who persevered gained something valuable beyond price from him. He was an effective leader although not always a well-loved one! And the company flourished.
But over time he was replaced by a coddling overly sensitive feeling-oriented leader. He was well loved by most; but degraded the company into a shadow of its former self and eventually killed it.
then the leader doesnt listen to those being led. when there are more rules and statements than conversations. when the majority of the people following are disgruntled. it may not be the leaders fault but it is the leaders responsibility to help lead to a solution! and if the solution isnt present, the grumblings could get louder and then a trouble shooter might just have to be brought in. which might come across as scary but can be very productive. i like those guys.
(im thinking about a current work place, but i could mean a family or a country as well :D)
When any of the following occurs:
1) when it’s always “it’s my way or the highway” The god as presented in the bible would qualify. This heaven / hell dichotomy is the prime example of this.
2) when the leadership doesn’t do what s/he want the others in the organization to do. God is guilty of this as well. Do not kill. Kills literally everything except one family in a worldwide flood. Sanctions the killing and destruction of entire towns.
3) offers empty promises in terms of payment/ benefits. God says that he has the best in mind for our lives, yet followers are subjected to the same financial, medical, and social problems every one else has. The supposed rewards (heaven, after death) has no proof nor anyone who has died (i.e a person who comes back with a perfect body).
4) the description of what’s involved – be it in a job, project, or life in general details. The bible’s as clear as mud whatit wants sometimes, and contradictory in others.
5) misc factors: mishandled money, too much pickiness/ favoritism in relationships, lack of proper timely communication with others. The first can be seen in the church with them building an expansion for the church and later closing it down because they can’t afford it. The later is shown in the narrow gate and lack of biblical updates.
@griz I think you meant “likening God to a leader?” yes? He *is* the leader of the church. And one thing the church financial secretary said that’s also VERY true. Outside the office are spiritual matters, but the bookkeeping of the church (either as an individual church, a synod, or all the churches put together is like a multi-million dollar corporation. You can’t get around those facts, no matter how much linguistic acrobatics you perform.
@Jear77
What I asked was for you to find me the verse.
So are you saying God runs the multimillion-dollar corporation? Or do people?
Also I cannot respond to your private message because the mobile app is not working properly. Send me another private message and I can link to it through that
9 responses to “When does leadership become toxic?”
I guess interpretation of the word toxic might be broad, but as I see it (a kind of dynamic the fuels towards the negative), leadership can become toxic when followers follow out of fear (either towards the leader specifically, or towards a group that a leader may be guiding a fearful response to).
Leadership based on fear mongering has become the norm these days. Why not? It works and is as easy as expressing bullshit enough times that idiots will just start reciting on autopilot, because it takes significantly less effort that actually considering ideas on their merits.
Ironically this was learned through the practice of religion as a mind shaping tool. And what are politicians but a version of the religious leaders, that create legalities and then put people in a place of fear if they don’t follow what they thing everyone else accepts?
The problem is that everyone thinks the stupid ones are “them” and the them’s think the stupid one are the not them’s.
Leadership is toxic when it can manipulate followers on the existence of the brand the leader represents and nothing else of any substance.
@spitfire3dc
Consider “toxicity” as “poison”. It can rather quickly kill the organism out right; can slowly kill it over time; or can just weaken it and keep it from being all that it can be without actually killing it.
I think that misinformed or self-serving leadership can become toxic.
Not everyone possess admiral leadership qualities. I think that before anyone shows support for any leadership they should become familiar with those whom they stand behind. Otherwise, be a lemming and keep quiet about it.
@mj
The thing about effective leadership is that it can be in a style that you are not familiar with or that you might not particularly like at the time.
One example of a very effective leader in my life didn’t shrink from using a bit of fear to get the job done. He was no stranger to shaming people either. But both were means to an end and not an end unto themselves. He was always looking to prepare people to take on larger roles. He was very fatherly, in an old-school, drill sergeant sense.
He washed-out a lot of employees than arguably we’re not going to make it in the long run — send more than a few of them home crying.
But those who persevered gained something valuable beyond price from him. He was an effective leader although not always a well-loved one! And the company flourished.
But over time he was replaced by a coddling overly sensitive feeling-oriented leader. He was well loved by most; but degraded the company into a shadow of its former self and eventually killed it.
then the leader doesnt listen to those being led. when there are more rules and statements than conversations. when the majority of the people following are disgruntled. it may not be the leaders fault but it is the leaders responsibility to help lead to a solution! and if the solution isnt present, the grumblings could get louder and then a trouble shooter might just have to be brought in. which might come across as scary but can be very productive. i like those guys.
(im thinking about a current work place, but i could mean a family or a country as well :D)
When any of the following occurs:
1) when it’s always “it’s my way or the highway” The god as presented in the bible would qualify. This heaven / hell dichotomy is the prime example of this.
2) when the leadership doesn’t do what s/he want the others in the organization to do. God is guilty of this as well. Do not kill. Kills literally everything except one family in a worldwide flood. Sanctions the killing and destruction of entire towns.
3) offers empty promises in terms of payment/ benefits. God says that he has the best in mind for our lives, yet followers are subjected to the same financial, medical, and social problems every one else has. The supposed rewards (heaven, after death) has no proof nor anyone who has died (i.e a person who comes back with a perfect body).
4) the description of what’s involved – be it in a job, project, or life in general details. The bible’s as clear as mud whatit wants sometimes, and contradictory in others.
5) misc factors: mishandled money, too much pickiness/ favoritism in relationships, lack of proper timely communication with others. The first can be seen in the church with them building an expansion for the church and later closing it down because they can’t afford it. The later is shown in the narrow gate and lack of biblical updates.
@Jear77
For every one verse you find lightning God to a leader I will find you 20 likening him to a King . . . or higher!
@griz I think you meant “likening God to a leader?” yes? He *is* the leader of the church. And one thing the church financial secretary said that’s also VERY true. Outside the office are spiritual matters, but the bookkeeping of the church (either as an individual church, a synod, or all the churches put together is like a multi-million dollar corporation. You can’t get around those facts, no matter how much linguistic acrobatics you perform.
@Jear77
What I asked was for you to find me the verse.
So are you saying God runs the multimillion-dollar corporation? Or do people?
Also I cannot respond to your private message because the mobile app is not working properly. Send me another private message and I can link to it through that