Think about that. All narratives . . . are about the Human Condition. If they were not, we couldn’t participate in them.
We like to be the Hero — justified in chasing Evil and making it pay, to the praises of the tribe.
Some opt to be the Victim — justified in their negative emotions, and cheering when the Evil Doer is brought down.
But hardly ever to we play the Bringer of Evil. Or if we do, we like the stories where they are in some way “not responsible”. Few are “pure evil”; most had an excuse. (ie, Hitler washed out of art school, his pet guppy died, his mother didn’t love him, he didn’t have a nintendo in his room).
Thing about that is that if all three archetypes are a narrative on the Human Condition, why do we either leave the one mostly alone . . . or apply justifying conditions?
Do we never entertain ourselves as the Bringer of Evil . . . or if we do, conditionally with a get-out-of-responsibility-free card.
ALL meaningful transformations involve a trip to the proverbial “underworld” of ourselves. (In most narratives, the Hero does this and comes back transformed).
© 2026 – SoulSequel
26 responses to “When you read a story, enjoy a movie, read ancient mythology . . . are you identifying with the Hero? The Victim? Or the Perpetrator of Evil??”
Depends on the movie.
@Weenis
How so?
All movies are human narratives otherwise we would find no interest in them.
So why would it matter which one you tried this experiment in understanding our inherent nature on?
Theoretically the more challenging the story the more valuable the insights would be.
So which ones would you not want to read yourself into; and why?
depends on the story.
@Jear77
How so?
All stories are narratives of The Human Condition otherwise we would find no interest in them.
So why would it matter which one you tried this experiment in understanding The Human Condition, on?
The more challenge we would find reading ourselves into the role of the bringer of evil, the more insights would come.
So which ones might you find the most challenging to read yourself into? And why?
@griz There are some – the neverending story, some of disney classics, Robert Jordan’s “Wheel of Time,” among others that I like the protagonist.
There’s others – where the main character is not so goody two shoes – batman comes to mind
And then there’s the compelling figure of the devil in paradise lost with the greatest line in literature ever given to an antagonist “it’s better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven”
@Jear77
They’re all a part of who we collectively are. Not just the appealing ones but the difficult ones as well.
When they get too nasty we want to demonize them and separate from them. Perhaps to preserve our delusions?
Still, it’s a compelling exercise into who we are when all the niceties drop away, and a few dastardly blows by life find us in places where Angels fear to tread.
@griz reality is way more convoluted than fictional narratives.
@Jear77
But a “good” fictional narrative is “good” because it presents some simplified version of the more complex over-arching archetype . . . which itself is a simplified version of the greater complexity of Human “being”.
And these have been with us since before recorded History. (Because they were “intact” in the earliest records of archaeological and anthropological History.)
@griz perhaps But one thing I found is these narratives often stop, leaving an incomplete story or unanswered questions.
@Jear77
So we have to work a bit. Boo hoo.
Does a child learn better from you giving them the answer; or from directing them to where they can find the answer for themselves?
(And knowing you, presume that we are not talking about “an answer” that would lead them to obvious harm/death! Giving a child the exact answer as to why not to fuck with pit vipers or a hot stove is preferable to pointing them to one to find out why for themselves! Sheesh! You and your “exceptionism”! I shouldn’t have to provide a common-sense addendum like this!)
@griz actually not where I was going with that. But it would get into things you wouldn’t be interested in. There’s this thing called “game theory” and “film theory” that looks at the science, culture, and lore collected from the game(s), books, and movies and pieces them together the evidence with a few sparse clues and gives an answer to what’s really going on. MattPatt is one of my favorite YouTubers who does this.
@Jear77
Wouldn’t it be interesting this applied to things like “the transcendent”?
Oh, wait! They do!
(Stories and archetypes were the “films” of the day; and many of the assertions of philosophy and spiritually follow the model of game theory).
@griz The field of study you’re looking for is “theology” and while it can be interesting, there are as many theologies (note the plurality of the word) as there are people. Moreso perhaps, as other people study religious texts for cultures and religions that they are not a part of, as you can have a theology on a belief system you personally don’t hold to.
@Jear77
Theology is included; but it doesn’t exclude the other two disciplines.
I didn’t include it because it is a major specialization encompassing only a very few people compared to the other two.
@griz point.
Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths. Owlman (evil counterpart to Batman) goes to Earth-Prime to set off a nuke that will erase the entire multiverse. He feels that nothing matters and that him doing that is the only action that would not result in the creation of another universe. Probably the closest I have ever come to identifying with a villain. Well, at least to that type of villain. Like, I haven’t seen Black Panther yet, but people seem to really understand the reasoning of Killmonger. I doubt people would feel the same with Owlman.
@yin
Some good observations.
I’m trying to cast a distinction here between “villains” whom we “easily” identify with, and an actual exercise of intentionally trying to walk out an episode in a villain’s shoes who are very uncomfortable to wear.
Like an extermination-camp soldier or commandant in Schindler’s List.
Even these dastardly-uncomfortable characters are elements of the Human Condition. We are perhaps too quick to try to deny the same “seed” lives within us all.
And a very uncomfortable exercise of recognizing that it IS there . . . is perhaps the best proof against it starting to germinate within us without our knowing it.
Chances are this is EXACTLY what has happened in all of these people, young and old, who just “suddenly” commit heinous acts: they didn’t recognize a) that they had such a seed of evil in them and b) that their chosen precepts were nurturing it.
I watch both sides and eat my popcorn. If there is fighting in the movie — I phase out and pay more attention to my popcorn. I will get back to the movie after the conflict to see who won. I don’t identify with anyone who is fighting.
In a chick flick, I am on the side of love winning.
@ladybarbara
My intent in posting this came from a specific exercise from a psych Prof to try watching a whole movie from entirely within the base-villain’s shoes. Connect with your inner “Dragon of Chaos”.
He’s also a clinical psychologist and uses this as an exercise for starry-eyed, squishy-good types who frequent his practice.
Having lived through much of Earths history, at least that of the last 258,000+ years of it, movies and stories about ancient history and current history tend to ruminate memories, some of which I’d rather not care to recall. I suppose it could be said of me that I was the villain in some of those stories…it’s a matter of perspective. As a pirate of course, that chosen profession had its own drawbacks, from an historical perspective mind you. What is a ship? A ship is freedom mate…( a line from P.O.T.C. character Captain Jack Sparrow), so very true.
Also being an immortal tends to have certain problems…outliving everyone around you causes one to become melancholy at times.
I have never felt like the victim, even of my own choices. Life is a journey worth making. One can only see what’s beyond the horizon by sailing towards it with the expectation of adventure. I don’t consider myself a hero, that is up to whomever interacts with me in life. For good or bad, I remain the Immortal Pirate.
@immortal_pirate
There’s a heroic aspect to the pirate motif!
I understand the freedom quote. While I have specific responsibilities to discharge, my truck is my “ship” and I am the captain of exactly how I arrive at my destinations. Not quite the same, but similar. (It cuts out the need to loot and pillage to finance my adventures!)
I relate too with “things I’d rather not recall”. But for better or for worse, they are a part of me. And I’d rather be reconciled with them so they don’t jump up and go “boo!” just when I’m in the middle of battling some fearsome Kraken from the depths!
@griz Smooth sailing Captain Griz. May all of your adventures be grand and fruitful. May you always stay ahead of the Krakens…
@immortal_pirate
Hey, I’ve eaten every single Kraken alive that’s come after me; though some gave me some powerful bouts of indigestion!
One may have my number someday. But he’ll have to get past my knife fork and A1 sauce!
@immortal_pirate
The winds are taking me into St Louis; so I may have to abandon hope!
I think it depends who is telling the story. First person? Third person? Who does the writer want me to identify with?
I like stories where I can identify with everyone. That’s when I know the writer is trying to include me in the story. There are some stories where I am on side with a person and then out comes the twist where he is the villain and others where the villain becomes a hero. Professor Snapes comes to mind there.
There were some scenes with Hannibal Lectern where I identified with him, like his preference for a Chianti, although his choice of pairing left something to be desired.
@spitfire3dc
Yea. Snape is a masterfully crafted character!
I forget the name of the movie, but I once watched one that very deeply delved into the “being” of Hitler. It was a fascinating event to watch, because it had you (or me at least!) almost too comfortably associating with the man.
And this caused “discomfort”, because it caused the various incarnations of “the Dragon of Chaos” within me that I had enjoyed various degrees of victory over . . . stirring to remind me that they were still there.
I think Prof Peterson was suggesting this as a conscious exercise on a dark character that was not easy to identify with . . . and not just asking us which ones we’d easily identified with.
But he was suggesting it to an audience of psychology students who conceivable could be confronting some very evil characters if they went into professional practice. Does the average person need the wisdom that would come from such an experiment?
I don’t know.