I grew up with what modern society would call too much, manifesting in abuse by today’s standards.
But from this I developed a healthy respect for authority that has seen me relatively trouble-free through adult life.
I contrast this with those who did not have enough discipline as a child and developed authority issues in adult life, landing them in endless problems with the law, employers; and confounding healthy personal relationship.
What are your thoughts on this?
© 2026 – SoulSequel
39 responses to “Which is less harmful to a child? Too much Authority and discipline, or not enough?”
My first thoughts are how authority is wielded.
I think you can deliver authority is an ultimatum orientation, or be purposeful in providing direction with an intention of helping those under authority grow to embrace it themselves.
Nothing makes me prouder when one of my kids tells me what to do and I know it is a better direction than what I intended to do, whether that driver was laziness on my part or just unawareness of the better alternative.
Answering your question directly; I would say too much is better than not enough, but it comes down to degrees. There has to be balance as in all things.
@spitfire3dc
I agree on the balance issue. I just recognized that as a race we are terrible balancers! It always seems to come down to degrees off balance, and which way!
I would agree that too much is better than not enough. It is better to relax authority and express pride in their worthiness for greater freedom and trust . . . than try to apply it after the fact and build resentment in them and disappointment in you.
@griz
You better not be reading this while driving or trying to dictate a reply.
Wait until you are stopped.
There is a massive challenge to wielding authority conscientiously. Quite often, those who are being told to do, even with the best of intentions rebel for the sake of rebellion.
I have been in management roles for most of my life. It has not been by choice to a large degree because I can be a pretty shitty team player. I don’t like to lose based on a lack of effort by others on the same team. That being said, my goal as a manager was to train to replace myself so I could move on and up (up usually translated into better pay. That was probably the fuel for my ambition at the time). Part of the way I trained was to put “my” people into challenging situations and let them respond. Learning the hard way might be a way to alternatively describe that. Those that grew from the experiences would continue to grow as they received greater and greater challenges. I have to admit that I can push. I managed (pushed) my kids the same way I managed (pushed) my employees. those two words are the same in many ways but vastly different if you choose to see the differences versus the similarities.
Authority is good and bad to the person who wields it and to the people upon whom it is wielded. Perspective makes all the difference.
@spitfire3dc
If I didn’t listen to and dictate responses on the go, you people would never hear from me! It’s little different from a phone conversation, except I can take minutes or even hours between thoughts and it’s not taken amiss! You’ll have to trust me to do it safely and legally.
There is a difference between authority wielded for the benefit of others, an authority wielded for our own sake (ego, anger, needing to prove something etc)
I would have been a LOT better off if my parents were WAY more lax when I was growing up. Friends of mine have said that I am abnormal in the extreme because I haven’t experienced life because things “normal” kids do I was not allowed to do: party, gallivant, make my own mistakes. But I also saw how much my brother had problems and so I didn’t want to. Other people got jobs that had them working late hours, I never did that, so never have been one for having odd hours.
@Jear77
My upbringing was not so different from yours, except the peril for disobeying may have been greater.
I try to never use the reason why I find myself where I am today . . . as an excuse for staying there.
I made up for lost time on some things. Others I never did; and counted it as gain that I escaped the pitfalls there.
(BTW, consider how your authority resentment might color your understanding the ultimate authority of God. Past experiences can be “a reason” for a reaction: but a poor excuse for remaining in it)
@the key point is to be willing to change and there are things I have seen that are such the drama that I simply WILL NOT deal with in my life, and the way I do things is blatantly against what various rules says, and I’m like I don’t care. I do what I must, how I must, and in the direction I must even if it opposes everything and e veryone else, and NO ONE will nay say me. And if there are consequences, I have ways of getting out of them (provided I’m not totally stupid)
@Jear77
Have you ever just accepted a consequence without trying to worm out of it?
@griz There have been consequences to my behavior where worming out of it was impossible. Growing up because I was impatient, I burned my ENTIRE arm on a waffle iron. I was antsy in a doctor’s office and ran around, cracking my head open. I went ahead of my parents and cut my leg on an escalator. So I know there are things where natural consequences come about.
@Jear77
But as an adult if you find yourself at consequence because of your actions freely taken, would you ever accept those actions graciously and learn from them?
Or is it always a scenario of trying to wiggle your way out of them? Is your situation . . . Always someone else’s fault?
@griz Of course. It’s obvious if i don’t live with my parents, anything that happens is my responsibility (like my getting sick, I took my friend’s advice as to what to order instead of sticking to my guns and having exactly what he had — and if he suggests something like that again I will be sure to remind him of the consequences!)… yet I am not going to put myself in a situation where I burn the bridge with my parents permanently, as long as they live, as I may end up there again.
On the other hand, there are things that should NOT be my fault (at least in the sense because I was asked to do them for someone else). The person asking me to do them needs to be held responsible for asking someone else to do illegal things. And it’s ironic… he’s actually pointed out that I can’t know everything he does, for if i do he will go to jail (and likely will i!). If I do something based on his say-so… and it’s illegal, and I don’t know it’s illegal (let’s say they changed the laws yesterday and I haven’t watched the news in the last year… should I be held legally responsible for my actions that I didn’t know were illegal… NO!)
@Jear77
What of the saying, “Ignorance of the law is no excuse”?
Traveling through so many jurisdictions as I do, it would be impossible to be fully informed of all the laws of all the different regions. And I’ve always found things to go far better for me, when I own up to the fact that I was ignorant of the laws; and often mercy kicks in and I get a warning plus an education. The police are so used to everyone trying to warm an excuse their way out of everything, that it’s like a breath of fresh air when someone stands up and is willing to take the consequences: who is willing to work with the system rather than against it.
I knew another trucker who used to fume and rail and find excuses, and cry that it wasn’t his fault. He used to get a LOT of tickets!
@griz actually that’s wrong. Why? I have been watching Youtube videos by a guy named Kotherix (don’t ask me if I spelled that right) who argues the very fact that you NEED someone who specializes in the law (i.e a lawyer) means that the legal system for even SIMPLE stuff is too convoluted… because the laws change DAILY. Even saying “you know officer, I’m sorry, I didn’t know” doesn’t cut it at times. Maybe they’re trying to get their brownie points. Maybe they’ve had a bad day and your minor offense was the last straw. IMHO unless something involved violence / serious threat thereof with actual plans that are provable (not some idiot spouting nonsense on social media for 2 seconds and someone sees it in that time and needing to “pay his dues” to society the rest of his life), rape (sexual abuse, etc falls into this category), or theft, most laws are about one thing: money. How the government can incarcerate you and how lawyers and/ or private organizations that own the prison system can collect money off the misfortune off a simple mistake. Does locking someone up, or forcing them to get a lawyer because the stop arm of a bus was out on a 4 lane street serve justice? How about getting a ticket because you’re going 6 miles over the speed limit? Or what if you’re talking about the plot of a movie concerning terrorism or a local news story in an airport? Almost anything a person says, if taken out of context can sound threatening or suspicious. Does arresting someone based such things serve justice when no actual crime happened? Then there’s stuff like the litigiousness of society. Take the Cook County Soda pop tax as a prime example: it’s something like $0.01 per ounce for pre- sweetened beverages. Because the tax was misapplied someone is filing a class action lawsuit against the company who charged him the tax unnecessarily.
@Jear77
This is interesting coming from someone who is disillusioned by the “letter-of-the-law” book-worship of church-religion.
If you understand the spirit of the law (it’s intent), the worship-of-the-word found in the world of lawsuits and litigation is very easily avoided.
Laws (including the ones you mention) are for the most part for the sake of public safety. Why are you risking the lives of children by blowing the stop-arm? Why are you going 6 miles over the limit? You are taking a chance. And to cry boo-hoo when it costs you, is confounded.
Also consider that the person who keeps their proverbial nose clean, doesn’t spend days and nights worrying about boogers they might not be aware of . . . or spending time confabulating excuses should one be found!
@griz but once again, even the most astute of us needs a lawyer. People who have a doctorate in law will STILL “lawyer up” as there is an old saying “only a fool has himself as a client.” Why do I(or you or the next person) need to have a lawyer? Because the laws are unintelligible. Because we’re too close to the case. Because the lawyers hobnob with the judges. At day’s end it’s too often not about justice, it’s about money. And until all cases can be put aside without one, i will be unmoved in my opinion.
@Jear77
Q: Why are the laws so convoluted?
A: Because so many people, not honoring the spirit of the law, are coming up with so many convoluted ways to try to dodge responsibility for their actions!
@griz That means nothing to me while money exchanges hands or needs to do so!
@Jear77
There are ways of participating in the worldly economy, without landing you in too many situations requiring a lawyer!
(With common-sense application such as when buying real estate or starting a company. But your allusions to being thrown in jail for infractions didn’t seem to fall into these categories. They seemed to be more about dodging and ducking!)
@griz losing one’s shirt is just as problematic due to not knowing how to navigate the system.
@Jear77
You are right that “just breathing” doesn’t guarantee success or win any trophies.
One needs awareness and skill; knowledge and wise application of that knowledge.
Are we in agreement so far?
@griz more like “you need to have the appropriate education to accomplish [a variety of things] successfully”
@Jear77
Education helps. And it’s more available to more people in a variety of forms than ever before.
But let’s not forget the number of people who have succeeded and made great contributions without it.
Einstein flunked out of mathematics. I’ve had zero formal training for my photography.
Also consider the number of people with degrees and diplomas who are Stark raving fools who never amount to much.
So excuses can only carry one so far.
@griz actually that one about einstein is a myth. There was something i saw or watched recently that was about him which stated that he thought it funny that people thought he flunked in math, but it wasn’t true
Education is one part, but doing is the other, which “the science of getting rich” discusses. As i said there’s a lot of nonsense, but one idea that is amazing is “two people selling the exact same thing on the exact same street, one gets rich, while the other gets poor, that must mean that one is doing something different than the other,”
@Jear77
Even if Einstein was a straight-A student at math, there are no shortage of others who have excelled without formal education.
You may find dreaming about getting rich a lot more fun and fulfilling than actually getting rich!
“The formula” used to be a lot simpler.
Have a product or service that fulfills a good and simple need.
Use it and believing it yourself.
Care about the people you are offering it to.
If they are satisfied ask them to tell their neighbors. If they are not ask them to tell you.
But anyone who valued isolation more than being around and involved with people would be at a disadvantage with this formula.
@griz nowadays you need multiple streams of income
@Jear77
Or just a job you really love in a critical niche and passion for doing it!
@griz even *doctors* and *lawyers* are poor because of college costs. Thankfully, i was able to fund my college degree through the state
I had too much authority as a child and it was to a point of extreme abuse. What I did not understand of my abuser was that she abused everyone with verbal abuse, as well as beating and hitting. She would not stop until at the age of 98 the hospice care drugged her and tied her to her bed.
As for myself, at age 11, I learned to stay out of the reach of my abuser. I got a job so that I could buy my own clothing and toys and not depend on my abuser for the necessary things of life. I hated her cooking and learned to cook to get out of eating what she prepared. The biggest lesson she taught me was when she once told me (about one of my peers that was fighting with me), “Consider the source and move on.”
My two authority figures were my boss that owned the roller rink, where I worked, and a policeman. I would climb in the police car and take off my clothing to show him my bruises, burns, and wounds. That policeman would tell me to be a better daughter and I would not get injured by Mom. He stressed on me that it was my own fault that I was being beaten at home. I took that as being that I was being beaten because I was within reach of my abuser. I knew that my offenses that angered her were not really offenses. Moreover, I was a target when she had problems at work, or financial problems. I put space between us and ——- considered the source and moved on. I studied and learned about laws. There were no laws that controlled child abuse when I was young. Children were told that it was their own fault that they were being hit.
The policeman that I turned to for help did teach me endurance and tolerance. He said that during hardship, count the months that you have to endure. Do you have the strength and perseverance to make it until you can get away from that which you have to endure???? Yes, I did. I counted the months until I was 18 and then I got out of there!!!
I knew that I only had myself in this life. I knew that I was smart enough to figure out life on my own. I had a few bad marriages, but I learned to make better choices. I have a very good respect for authority that treats me fairly, but when I am not treated fairly, I simply walk away. I don’t put up an argument, like the youth of today. I simply get away and shut the aggressor out of my life. I respect the police. I respect the laws. I stay within the laws. I stay out of trouble. I don’t smoke. I don’t drink alcohol. I don’t do drugs. I stay sober and in control. The discipline I had and the discipline I keep on myself keeps me on an even keel in life.
I instilled what I learned in life on my children, but not without a spanking here and there. I raised them with the rule —- if you throw a tantrum, you don’t get what you want. However, ask for what you want in a sane and steady tone and I will see if I can get it for you. As a result, my kids get right to the point of what they want. They do not argue. It is a yes, or no answer. I noticed, also, that when they are criticized — they shut down the conversations, consider the source and walk away. Chips off of this old block. They respect the laws. Neither of my children smoke or drink. Yep, chips off of this old block.
Kids today learn to argue and throw tantrums to get their way. They need “safe spots” to have cocoa, a therapy puppy, a blanket, coloring books, and calming music. I have no understanding of that behavior and I will not argue their points. I simply shake my head, consider the source and walk away. I watch the chaos from a perch far away — out of their reach. I might even pop some popcorn to nibble on while I watch the dramas play out.
@ladybarbara
So even bad things that happened to us, can be turned around into something good.
My past is part of my assets; not my liabilities.
That means no bastard can never prevail over me.
@griz With the horrible history between my Mom and I, I realized she knows the wrong she has done. We came to a moment when she was admitted to a hospice care home. The Manager of the home wanted to know what kind of person she was taking in. The Manager asked me, “What kind of mother was Marion?” —— Mom looked into my eyes. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. Mom’s eyes filled with tears. I smiled and said, “She was the best Mom that she knew how to be. I mean, she always did what she thought was best.” What I did not say was that what she thought was best was a belt lashing and burns with a flat iron. Name calling and verbal abuse was her specialty. She always thought that family needed a good tongue lashing. It was what she thought was best. I could see in her eyes that she was ashamed of her lifelong conduct.
The hospice care found out for themselves that she could spin her aluminum walker like nun-chucks and snap you in the eye with the tennis ball slider in a flash of a few seconds. We thought she was dying 5 years ago. In truth, my brothers wife was lacing Mom’s food with rat poison and making her deathly ill. Once my brother faced that fact, it was up to him as to what to do about his wife. I told him that if Mom did not get hospice care, then I was taking her to be tested and reporting my brother’s wife. Mom got the hospice care home. She was 95 and looked to be on the edge of death. Truth is, she may live to be 108, as her mother lived to be 108. Now, hospice care has her drugged heavily and tied to her bed. She is happy now, because she doesn’t know anyone in her family anymore.
I put the bad years behind me. I am not abusive. I do not name-call, nor do I scorn people. Mom asked me if I thought she was really a good mother. I told her that she has only to look at the kind of people my brother and I are. We don’t get into trouble, not even traffic tickets. We don’t drink, smoke, or do drugs. She must have done something right. Truth is that we took the bad and made it form us into better people — and better parents. We knew what not to do. Well, a white lie to Mom was not going to hurt. After all, she is now 99 and it is best that she think that she did a good job. There is no reason to hurt her with harsh truth. The hospice care home DOES notice that very FEW family members will visit her. She left a wake of angry family members behind her.
@ladybarbara
My mom tried to own up to what she had done when she knew her time was almost up. I did a “good son” blow-off, saying she’s done fine considering he illnesses (physical and mental).
But that’s not what she needed to hear. She had seen the devastating effects visited upon all her children and needed more than just a blow-off. She died knowing how hurt and unforgiving I was.
I didn’t even realize this was my “parting shot” at her, until years later; replaying the event with the clarity of hindsight.
@griz When you have been through what we have been through, forgiveness is very hard. I really found it hard to try and smooth things over with Mom. For years, every time she came at me when I was a full grown adult, I would pick up my car keys and leave. We only came to real blows only once. She came to my apartment and got angry because there were a few dishes in my sink and I had not put them in the dishwasher. It got crazy and she was yanking me around by my hair and punching my face. I got her down and choked her. While I had my knee on her throat, I told her that she was NEVER to visit any house where I live and to stay away from my children. That did it. She did not come to my house again for more than 30 years. When I visited her house, I kept my car keys nearby, ready to pick up and leave if she got nasty with me. The last time I saw her at the hospice care home, she said that if I really had a boyfriend I would bring him to meet her. I said that he lives in Arizona. Then i realized her walker flashed in the sun as she spun it up and hit me in the eye with the tennis ball skid. I said my “good-bye” and have not been back for the past two years. It feels bad knowing that we parted like that. The family says that she can no longer recognize anyone, so I suppose I am not missed. Still, it feels bad to not go and visit.
@ladybarbara
True reconciliation can only come when one party forgives and the other party repents.
My mom wanted to work on repentance, but I could not forgive what I did not yet understand.
It sounds like you want to work on forgiveness but she will not repent.
These make healing harder but not impossible.
I do not believe a trespasser can continue to hold you hostage just because they won’t repent; or that a trespassee can hold a trespasser hostage by refusing to forgive.
Forgiveness is the “hard work and healing salve” that puts the trespassee back in control of their healing process and their life. They have done everything they can, while honoring a person’s right to live in the way they choose.
Repentance/atonement is the “hard work and healing salve” for the trespasser.
Either party can choose to block their own healing and full reconciliation.
And either party can choose to go ahead with their own healing even without the others “approval”!
But from my own experience I would share that it is frightfully hard to forgive a ghost. Take care of your reconciliations in living time, in so much as it is within your power.
@griz Good thoughts. I realize that my Mom has never said, “Sorry” for anything in her whole life. So there it is. She is as she is. That is the way the rest of the family treats the situation with her. I think of my nephew, Kippy, with her attacking him with a dish towel. He put his long arm out, hand on her forehead. She kept on snapping that towel at him and yelling. He turned to the rest of the family (like a George Burns aside) and said, “That’s my little Grandma.” The family laughed. I mean, she looked like short little “Granny” of Beverly Hillbillies.
So, I will not ask of a woman now on drugs, who is tied to her bed and fighting, because she is still strong and perhaps 8 years away from dying, to do an apology. It is no longer important. I will think of the more precious moments, like when she bitched at a room full of her visitors that we will only leave in a few minutes, so why the hell do we all visit her? We all swore that we wouldn’t leave. We had come to celebrate her birthday. We piled our car keys on the tray in front of her just to show we will not leave. She looked at all the keys and saw that every key had a red button on it. She started pushing all the red buttons and car alarms sounded in the parking lot. We all grabbed our keys and rushed out to silence our cars. She looked at my niece, Dori, and said, “See? I told you they were going to leave.” —– I will simply know she is as she is and chalk it up to “That’s my Mom.” and leave it like that. If I said that she made my childhood a hell, she would say, “You are 70 years old. That was more than 50 years ago. What’s wrong with you? Move past it!!!” And that is what I do. That is what you are doing, too. We put it in our past and grow from it. We let it be the wind that made the tree grow stronger.
@ladybarbara
I think for an apology or repentance to be true, it cannot be forced. They have to want to do it; for the sake of healing themselves. We’ve been mis-taught that the apology is for the person trespassed against.
It is not. Not a true one anyways. It’s not “damage control” (a reaction to save face); but healing balm (pro-action, with intent to heal and reconcile). Nobody can repent until they’re ready. But those they run around injuring can still own their hurt and heal themselves.
Just a thought: it’s almost like she’s desperate to protect you from something worse than the ploys she uses to drive you away.
@griz Idon’t know if she is protecting. I think it is more like one niece said, “She thinks her shit don’t stink.” Well, her mind is gone to the heavy drugs that stop her from hitting the hospice care staff and knowing when she has a visitor.
It is what it is and it was what it was.
@ladybarbara
A very powerful “cautionary tale”, as close to you as could be.
And it sounds like you’ve risen in many ways to not carrying the same detrimental process (the “sin”) into future generations.
The causality (responsibility for) her choices now weighs heavily upon her. Even if this was a “generational curse”, she had the same choices as you to not carry it forward.
There is a very tough point of tough-love where we consign a person to their chosen path; being in a way grateful for a life dedicated to showing the folly and error of living in a certain way.
There remains hope that the might want to escape from it in the 11th hour; and our standing off a bit means we are ready to react to any glimmer of hope — in a way we would not be if we were still in the presence of toxicity and constantly bombarded by it.
But ultimately each person’s “fate” is to great degree, up to them.
One of Life’s harsher Truths.
being able to deal with boundaries and being able to adjust are better for a child and person in the long run, in my opinion. some freedom, choice and teaching are very important. i dont know if authority is as important as boundaries. but i guess there is authority in setting those. id say Too Much is still more harmful, but that is because i get defensive about the idea of excessive discipline. but some is necessary. you know me, im a mixed feelings on this one gal. i dont think our job is necessarily to raise full on conformist members of society. but members who are able to navigate the world and regulate themselves, are better off than those who dont recognize consequence…