@griz Considering there is a lot of woman hate today, I do not agree with a sentiment that downplays the equality of women.
My wife is as dominant as a woman can get… but she is also my helper. She brings me glory. She does whatever I ask of her (usually), and goes way beyond the extra mile.
With the Spirit of Christ, women are not as they were back two thousand years ago.
The Spirit of Christ makes her a Christ, as it makes me a Christ. And there are a lot of men and women out there who are no longer an Adam or an Eve, but a Christ… be they jew or gentile, male or female.
Not “the” Christ, but children of Christ. Like the same last name. Same family.
But things like physical equality, genetic equality, psychological equality will continue to exist despite insistence that they don’t. medical science has already proven notable “inequalities” in the brains of men and women.
Are we to foster a lie as some kind of “fortress” against there being hatred in the world??
@griz Women are much better communicators then men, says science. They are more compassionate. They are more intuitive. They are more beautiful. And so on.
They are men’s equal, therefore.
They normally are weaker, but not those with the Spirit of Christ.
Sexism is not a good thing. God is not a sexist.
Today, with these far right movements going on talking about how terrible women are compared to men, is wrong.
Men who think they can sexually harass women are wrong.
Men have to change a lot of their behaviors to respect women.
Though America is not the Muslim world where women really get the worst treatment.
Sexism is not godly.
Not being a sexist is godly, being a sexist is ungodly.
@five2one
So now name as many things that men tend to do better than women.
(Can you even?)
When you say “equality”, perhaps you mean equality in partnership? Meaning we are intended to function together, as a better unit than either of us could be separately.
You should try to break out of the far-left and far-right thinking: because truth is rarely found in the extremes.
And it is almost never found in reactionism to the extremes.
Reactions to reactions to reactions are what has landed Us in this mess.
Either side abusing the other is equally wrong: whether physical, sexual, financial, psychological emotional or spiritual. (That’s God’s own Gospel Truth; and I would challenge you to say otherwise).
This demonizing of just one narrow aspect of abuse that one can then apply to a specific and entire group, is exactly what Marxism was and is.
Insisting that one side has all the work to do, all the price to pay is wrong. It’s dead wrong. And it’s destroying generations of young people, just so the adults can play some political powered battle of the sexes game, Marxist style. (Because that worked out so well in every society even a shade of it was tried, right?)
This does not preclude that we have work to do, together. But we can and should leave debunked political ideologies the hell out of it.
@griz “When you say “equality”, perhaps you mean equality in partnership? Meaning we are intended to function together, as a better unit than either of us could be separately.
You should try to break out of the far-left and far-right thinking: because truth is rarely found in the extremes.
And it is almost never found in reactionism to the extremes.”
I am doing neither. I just believe women are as much a person as men are a person.
And women do get a lot of bad stuff, before feminism came along.
Still they are treated as less then human by many of their male counterparts.
@five2one
Absolute spiritual equality, and some points of equality in the flesh.
But “total equality”, period . . . Is a boondoggle and an empty Battle Cry. One would be better off crying “Utopia” and fully expecting it to come to pass in the next short while.
(But at least one can bide their time a very Marxist way by demonizing oppression-groups that would dare stand in the way of it arriving for us personally!)
So you’re not totally down on yourself. I’m glad. But it took long enough to coax it out of you!
Focusing on the very few shortcomings of the past should not blind us to the very many boons and benefits of it.
Something most modern victimhood groups are totally bereft of, is even a germ of gratitude for points in the past that have been wisely administrated.
That conviction is The Holy Spirit’s job; or that we shouldn’t presume we can do a better job?
If I am not abiding by Christ’s teachings he is my judge only if I don’t attend to the convictions of the Holy Spirit.
There is a function for Godly correction within the body of Christ. But
1) there is specific form it needs to adhere to and
2) you’ve already judged that I am not part of the body of Christ; and therefore you don’t need to receive anything that I offer.
@five2one St Paul’s advice in 1 Timothy 2:12, in which the saint says: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.”
@five2one
There is some evidence that Paul’s instruction to them was the right thing at the time; because the church at Ephesus survived this crisis. So are some edicts of the Spirit specific and time-sensitive?
The Laws of the Old Testament would seem to be proof that yes he does.
There’s also the possibility that Paul was just winging it. The church at Ephesus was facing a crisis that his stodgy Judeaistic training gave him no insight on, no precedent to follow (because Jewish tradition head men and women worshipping in different rooms).
@saintcharlie
Can you provide further context of the times, the culture into which this was spoken, and in response to what specific incident?
We are essentially reading someone else’s mail; its intent and purpose geared to a specific people at a specific time.
It’s included in the biblical Canon simply because there are so many other gems in it for broad application.
If you restore the context it is seen that this is clearly not one of them.
The problem is that too many religious ideologies worship the book: the letter of the law rather than the spirit. They actually mistake the legalistic writings as their God.
In a way it was actually wise to leave the letter intact. It gives us valuable opportunity to not just read the words but to study them and look for the spirit behind them.
@five2one
Why are you in essence saying that men are lesser? Or that we are the only ones who have committed abuses? Or that we are the only ones who have work to do or “penance” to pay?
How is this not sexism?
I would reiterate that reactions to reactions to reactions are NO justification for running into a proven socially fatal ideology. (The victim-hood and general group-blaming of Marxism)
21 responses to “Women are equal to men, so those who say they are not are blind”
In some ways yes and in others no.
“Equality” period is such a troublesome concept.
@griz Pretty basic.
Yes, like individual humans, and their differences… males and females have their differences.
I would suggest that you share your true viewpoints, however. If they are not shameful, then why hide them?
@five2one
Your assertion as originally posed was too broad to be meaningful.
Any viewpoint I offered would have only been a guess as to what you were truly asking/asserting.
I’m reminded of how the marxists tried to apply equality power politics, and the cautionary tale we should take from it.
@griz Considering there is a lot of woman hate today, I do not agree with a sentiment that downplays the equality of women.
My wife is as dominant as a woman can get… but she is also my helper. She brings me glory. She does whatever I ask of her (usually), and goes way beyond the extra mile.
With the Spirit of Christ, women are not as they were back two thousand years ago.
The Spirit of Christ makes her a Christ, as it makes me a Christ. And there are a lot of men and women out there who are no longer an Adam or an Eve, but a Christ… be they jew or gentile, male or female.
Not “the” Christ, but children of Christ. Like the same last name. Same family.
@five2one
Spiritual equality is not in question.
But things like physical equality, genetic equality, psychological equality will continue to exist despite insistence that they don’t. medical science has already proven notable “inequalities” in the brains of men and women.
Are we to foster a lie as some kind of “fortress” against there being hatred in the world??
What godliness do you see as coming from this???
@griz Women are much better communicators then men, says science. They are more compassionate. They are more intuitive. They are more beautiful. And so on.
They are men’s equal, therefore.
They normally are weaker, but not those with the Spirit of Christ.
Sexism is not a good thing. God is not a sexist.
Today, with these far right movements going on talking about how terrible women are compared to men, is wrong.
Men who think they can sexually harass women are wrong.
Men have to change a lot of their behaviors to respect women.
Though America is not the Muslim world where women really get the worst treatment.
Sexism is not godly.
Not being a sexist is godly, being a sexist is ungodly.
@five2one
So now name as many things that men tend to do better than women.
(Can you even?)
When you say “equality”, perhaps you mean equality in partnership? Meaning we are intended to function together, as a better unit than either of us could be separately.
You should try to break out of the far-left and far-right thinking: because truth is rarely found in the extremes.
And it is almost never found in reactionism to the extremes.
Reactions to reactions to reactions are what has landed Us in this mess.
Either side abusing the other is equally wrong: whether physical, sexual, financial, psychological emotional or spiritual. (That’s God’s own Gospel Truth; and I would challenge you to say otherwise).
This demonizing of just one narrow aspect of abuse that one can then apply to a specific and entire group, is exactly what Marxism was and is.
Insisting that one side has all the work to do, all the price to pay is wrong. It’s dead wrong. And it’s destroying generations of young people, just so the adults can play some political powered battle of the sexes game, Marxist style. (Because that worked out so well in every society even a shade of it was tried, right?)
This does not preclude that we have work to do, together. But we can and should leave debunked political ideologies the hell out of it.
@griz “When you say “equality”, perhaps you mean equality in partnership? Meaning we are intended to function together, as a better unit than either of us could be separately.
You should try to break out of the far-left and far-right thinking: because truth is rarely found in the extremes.
And it is almost never found in reactionism to the extremes.”
I am doing neither. I just believe women are as much a person as men are a person.
And women do get a lot of bad stuff, before feminism came along.
Still they are treated as less then human by many of their male counterparts.
@five2one
I’m disappointed that you could not name as many good traits in men.
(There could be a point of personal healing here).
@griz I certainly can. I am the tree of knowledge. The snake is just an euphemism for Adam’s junk.
But, why?
I am not gay, I prefer women.
But, men are stronger then women. Both physically and spiritually.
That is the main difference.
Men are the Master, Women are the Helper.
@five2one
Absolute spiritual equality, and some points of equality in the flesh.
But “total equality”, period . . . Is a boondoggle and an empty Battle Cry. One would be better off crying “Utopia” and fully expecting it to come to pass in the next short while.
(But at least one can bide their time a very Marxist way by demonizing oppression-groups that would dare stand in the way of it arriving for us personally!)
So you’re not totally down on yourself. I’m glad. But it took long enough to coax it out of you!
Focusing on the very few shortcomings of the past should not blind us to the very many boons and benefits of it.
Something most modern victimhood groups are totally bereft of, is even a germ of gratitude for points in the past that have been wisely administrated.
@griz Men are stronger physically and spiritually, usually. Usually have masculine body features.
IDK, why would you hold back healing because I am not considering some detail you are aware of?
@five2one
Spiritual healing is a consideration in most things I post.
And I try to remain very aware of what is my job and what is the Holy Spirit’s job.
Woe to the person who thinks the Holy Spirit is not doing an adequate job, and that they need to jump in and take up the slack.
@griz You aren’t making any sense.
My viewpoint is you know Jesus is the Son of God, and you know God is God and exists… but you do not actually abide by the teachings of Christ.
@five2one
Which part does’t make sense?
That conviction is The Holy Spirit’s job; or that we shouldn’t presume we can do a better job?
If I am not abiding by Christ’s teachings he is my judge only if I don’t attend to the convictions of the Holy Spirit.
There is a function for Godly correction within the body of Christ. But
1) there is specific form it needs to adhere to and
2) you’ve already judged that I am not part of the body of Christ; and therefore you don’t need to receive anything that I offer.
@five2one St Paul’s advice in 1 Timothy 2:12, in which the saint says: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.”
Uhm?
@saintcharlie That was a totally different time, 2000 years ago. Things have changed.
Paul wrote that, that was not from the Spirit.
@five2one
There is some evidence that Paul’s instruction to them was the right thing at the time; because the church at Ephesus survived this crisis. So are some edicts of the Spirit specific and time-sensitive?
The Laws of the Old Testament would seem to be proof that yes he does.
There’s also the possibility that Paul was just winging it. The church at Ephesus was facing a crisis that his stodgy Judeaistic training gave him no insight on, no precedent to follow (because Jewish tradition head men and women worshipping in different rooms).
@saintcharlie
Can you provide further context of the times, the culture into which this was spoken, and in response to what specific incident?
We are essentially reading someone else’s mail; its intent and purpose geared to a specific people at a specific time.
It’s included in the biblical Canon simply because there are so many other gems in it for broad application.
If you restore the context it is seen that this is clearly not one of them.
The problem is that too many religious ideologies worship the book: the letter of the law rather than the spirit. They actually mistake the legalistic writings as their God.
In a way it was actually wise to leave the letter intact. It gives us valuable opportunity to not just read the words but to study them and look for the spirit behind them.
@griz My god is not a god of fortresses. My God is the Most High, father of Jesus Christ. And my father, too.
You are not making sense about what you are saying. Why are you saying women are less then men. Are you against women working outside the home?
@five2one
Why are you in essence saying that men are lesser? Or that we are the only ones who have committed abuses? Or that we are the only ones who have work to do or “penance” to pay?
How is this not sexism?
I would reiterate that reactions to reactions to reactions are NO justification for running into a proven socially fatal ideology. (The victim-hood and general group-blaming of Marxism)